Baby name consultation: Heather from the Go Forth podcast! (Continue long+short or not?)

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I shared in my interview with Jenny UebbingĀ that I was excited at my upcoming appearance on the Go Forth with Heather and Becky podcast — it’s going to air tomorrow! I’ll post the link here once I have it, and in the meantime, one of the things we discussed was name ideas for Heather’s third baby — a little girl! I’m delighted to post here the consultation I did for her in anticipation of the podcast being aired, so you all can read about her name situation and weigh in with your own ideas, which she’s excited to read!

This baby girl will join big sibs:

Elizabeth Ann (“after St. Elizabeth Ann Seton-Elizabeth and Ann are also both family names“)
Maximilian Leo (“after Saint Maximilian Kolbe-Leo is a family name“)

I love both of those names so much! So much faith significance in each one, and all those family names too!

Heather writes,

“We refer to them as “Lizzie” and “Max.” What I am not sure of with this baby is if we would like to stick with the longer/older sounding name with a shorter more fun nickname. My husband isn’t as married to this idea, and feels that if we do it a third time we would feel like we had to keep it up with any other babies we have down the road.”

I do really love the balance of the long first name with the short middle name, and great nicknames are my jam. ā˜ŗ

Names that Heather and her husband have considered include:

Clare (“my husband’s favorite currently-he is Irish and grew up on Clare street“)
Catherine (“maybe my favorite although we do have some friends in our parish with a Catherine. If we chose this, I would like to call her “Cate”“)
Edith (“maybe call her “Edie pronounced ee-dee?” Not sure if we could have Edith and Elizabeth or if those sound too similar?“)
Frances (“call her Francie or Frannie“)
Lydia
Maura
Rose
Zelie
Clara

Additionally,

“We both love St. Therese, but I do not love that for a first name. I also really love Catherine of Siena which is why I like Catherine.

Because our oldest daughter’s name honors my mother-in-law, as they share the middle name of Ann, we would like to find some way to honor my mother with this baby girl’s name, if possible. My mother and I share the middle name of Kay, so that is one solid possibility for a middle name for this baby.”

I loved working on this! Elizabeth Ann and Maximilian Leo are fantastic combosā€”I find the long first+short middle pattern really pleasing, and though I know what Heather’s husband means about feeling tied to it permanently if they name their third baby in the same way, itā€™s actually a pretty easy trend to continue. So I came up with some ideas that follow the trend, and those that donā€™t.

First I want to comment on the names on their list of those they’re considering:

Clare: I love Clare for them! Itā€™s short, thus breaking them out of their established pattern, but itā€™s great with both Elizabeth and Maximilian. And the significance for Heather’s hubsĀ is so great!

Catherine: I have a lot to say about Catherine below!

Edith: Love it! St. Edith Stein is a personal favorite, and Edie is one of THE cutest nicknames! But yes, they’ll have to consider Elizabeth and Edith ā€¦ both starting with the same first letter, both ending with the same two letters. What do you all think? Deal breaker or not?

Frances: Francie and Frannie are both so darling! I love that they’re considering Frances, Iā€™d love to see more little girls with this name.

Lydia, Maura, Rose, Zelie: All beautiful! Heather didnā€™t have any comment about them, so Iā€™m assuming theyā€™re not as ā€œin the runningā€ as the others, but maybe Iā€™m wrong? I like them each for different reasons.

Clara: My inclination would be to cross Clara off the list, since Clare has personal meaning for Heather’s husbandā€”using Clara would seem to me to lose a great opportunity.

Okay, moving along, Iā€™d like to discuss honoring Heather’s mom. Using her middle name, Kay, is one great idea; I alsoĀ I wondered what they’d think about giving the baby Heather’s momā€™s initials? (Her mom’s first name is Marcia, so her initials are M.K.) This is a tactic that some families use, and the honoree feels really honored by it; others think it feels too far from the honoree’s name and therefore don’t feel as honored, so Heather and her hubs would have to decide how her mom would feel. But doing the initial thingĀ opens up a lot of possibilities, and my favorites, based on the results of my research in the Baby Name Wizard book (which lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity), are:

— Mary Katherine: They already have Catherine on their list, and while the Katherine spelling does seem to take it one step away from St. Catherine of Siena, Catherine and Katherine are the same name (the former is the French spelling, also used in English; the latter is the English spelling and closest to the Greek katharos [ā€œpureā€], with which the nameā€”in both spellingsā€”has long been associated), and Katherine can certainly honor St. Catherine of Siena (whose name was actually the Italian Catarina; Catherine is a Frenchicization/Anglicization of it). It would involve a bit of a discussion each time they told someone that Katherine was as much for St. Catherine of Siena as for Heather’s mom, but that doesnā€™t have to be a dealbreaker at all. A simple, ā€œWe love St. Catherine of Siena and my momā€™s middle name Kay so we went with the Katherine spellingā€ should suffice.

Another really nice thing about using Katherine is that Kay is considered a short form of Katherine. Certainly Kay has its own life as a standalone name, but my understanding is that it started as a diminutive/nickname/variant of Katherine. So using Katherine is not only using Heather’s momā€™s middle initial, but also, in a way, her name (again, Heather would have to be sure she felt honored by this choice, if her goal was to honor her mom). And I love that Mary has the same first three letters as Marcia. So Mary Katherine really is quite close to Marcia Kay! I love Mary Katherine as a sister to Elizabeth and Maximilian as well, and there are a lot of nickname options: Mary and Mary Kate are natural ones, but they can also do just Kate, as they’d planned on if they went with Catherine as a first name. This is especially fun with Heather’s husband being Irish, because itā€™s not uncommon (at least in the old days) for Irish girls to be named Mary ___ and go by the double name, or just the middle. Most of my dadā€™s first female cousinsā€”all from two sides of a large family who embraces their Irishnessā€”are Mary ___, and almost all of them go by their middle names.Ā (Read more about the Irish Marys in my latest CatholicMom article: Our Lady, Queen of Ireland.)

So they could definitely do Kate, and with her given name being Mary Katherine, that would make it a little different from the little Catherine they know. And I think Mary Katherine works really well with their thought of not doing a long+short combo this time, because Mary Katherine feels like a double nameā€”which gives it the longer feel of Elizabeth and Maximilianā€”but unless they intend for it to be a double name, itā€™s actually a short+longā€”a really nice way to move away from their current pattern without seeming totally different. (I should note that even if they used Mary Catherine, knowing that Katherine is related to Kay and Catherine is the same name as Katherine, I still really like it for them.)

— Maura Karoline: Heather and her hubs already have Maura on their list (I love this beautiful Irish Mary name!), and Karoline is a name Iā€™ve seen used with some frequency among Catholic families as a way of honoring St. John Paul II, as his birth name was Karol. Overall, itā€™s a smashing combo that brings in Irishness and faith along with Heather’s momā€™s initials.

— Molly Katherine/Karoline: (Obviously Katherine and Karoline can be interchanged in the combos above as wellā€”Mary Karoline and Maura Katherine are both gorgeous.) Molly is a name I thought of for this family right away for two reasons: Heather’s husbandā€™s Irish, and I have two sisters named Elizabeth and Molly. To me, then, Elizabeth, Maximilian, and Molly go together really well!

I know some people who donā€™t care for Molly as a given name, as it feels too nicknamey to themā€”and though it has become a standalone name, it did indeed originate as a nickname for Maryā€”which can work in their favor here as well. A Mary K/Catherine or Mary Karoline could absolutely go by Mollyā€”I know several people named Mary who go by Molly. And I even know a Maura who goes by Molly! I love this option for them, however it ends up happening. (I also wanted to mention that I know a Molly Therese, which is another combo thatā€™s gorgeous, and Heather said she loves St. Therese ā€¦)

Okay! Those are my ideas for honoring Heather’s mom with initials, but I have several other ideas for them as well, which can be grouped into two categories: Long first names to go with the middle name Kay (and how amazing that they have a meaningful, three-letter middle to use, just like Ann and Leo?!), and short to middling names to break out of their pattern. All of the ideas are the results of my research into names that seem consistent with their style, as demonstrated by Elizabeth and Maximilian, as well as my own mental files.

Long first names
(1) Bernadette
Zelie and Therese had me thinking of other French names they might like, and Bernadette came right to mind. St. Bernadette is wonderful, and there are some really cute nickname possibilities: Berni, Benny, Netty, Etta/Etty, and Detta. Bernadette Kay has a lovely rhythm to it.

(2) Rosemary or Rosemarie
This is only partially a new idea, since they have Rose on their list already. I have a friend from Ireland named Rosemarie, and I love that thatā€™s the French spellingā€”seems to put it in a similar category as Zelie, Therese, and Bernadette to me. Rosemary is also a wonderful variant, and maybe the one most people would be familiar with. Rosemary Kay and Rosemarie Kay are both great, and Rosie, Romy, and even Rory are really sweet nicknames.

(3) Margaret
Like Mary, Margaret starts with the same first three letters of Heather’s momā€™s first name, so Margaret could also be a nice option for M.K. initials. And they certainly could do the longer Margaret with a long middle name, like Katherine or Karoline or whatever, but I really like the balance of Margaret Kay. Maggie is a great nickname and has a similar feel to me as Molly, and Maisie and Daisy are both traditional nickname for Margaret, which could be really fun. Margaret and Elizabeth are also two of the three ā€œtimeless English trioā€ names, according to the BNW (the other is Katherine!), so they definitely go together as sisters.

(4) Josephine
Josephine is a style match for Elizabeth and Catherine according to the BNW, and can have either St. Joseph (yesterday was his feast day!) or St. Josephine Bakhita as patronā€”both great saints! Josie is a great nickname, and Iā€™ve also seen Joy, Sophie, and Posy/Posey used (as well as this list from Appellation Mountain).

(5) Caroline
I mentioned Karoline above, using that spelling to fit in with Heather’s momā€™s initials, but I had Caroline on my list for them for a first name from the beginning. Itā€™s got the length of Elizabeth and Maximilian, and I love the nicknames Carrie and Callie. It might not be great with Kay thoughā€”some people love alliterative sounds and others donā€™t. Caroline Therese is beautiful too.

(6) Cecilia
Ceciliaā€™s a style match for Catherine and Lydia, and itā€™s super saintly like Elizabeth and Maximilian. Cecilia Kay is really lovelyā€”it has sort of an Old World glamor to it, to me, and Cece is a sweet nickname.

Short to middle first names
(1) Alice
Alice was a big hit for this family according to the BNW! Itā€™s a style match for Edith, Frances, Rose, Clara, and Lydia! Itā€™s a sweet vintage-y name thatā€™s already back in revival mode. There are a bunch of saints to choose for patronĀ — even though most of them are better known by more international variants, theyā€™re all Alice. (One of the variants, Adelaide, would actually make a great addition to the “long first names” list above!)

(2) Cora
Cora is a sweet little truffle of a name, and Iā€™ve been loving it recently, ever since I heard of families using it in honor of both the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Sacred Heart of Jesus! (Cor=heart in Latin) Cora Kay doesnā€™t work so well; Cora Therese is beautiful.

(3) Lucy
Like Alice, Lucy was a great style match for them, being similar to Clara, Rose, and Lydia. Lucy is one of the darlingest names I think! And familiarly saintly, like Elizabeth and Maximilian. Iā€™ve also often thought Lucy would be a great nickname for Louisa, if they thought Louisa was more their speed.

(4) Julia
Finally, Julia is a style match for Elizabeth, Catherine, and Lydia, and Juliet (which is technically a nickname for Julia) is a match for Clare. Itā€™s such a sophisticated name, and while Julie/Jules are natural nicknames, Iā€™ve also seen Jilly, which is sweet, and I also like the idea of Junie, if it was paired with an N middle name for exampleā€”Julia Noelle or something like that. I did a spotlight on Juliet here, in which I touch on the faith connections for Julia.

I also wanted to give a few minutes to thinking of three-letter names in case Heather and her hubs decide they want to stick with that pattern going forward. For girls, thereā€™s:

Ave/Ava (like Ave Maria! And Avaā€™s a variant of Eve, which can also be Marian)
Bay (lovely nature name)
Day (Iā€™ve seen this used for Servant of God Dorothy Day)
Eve/Eva (Eve can be Marian because sheā€™s the New Eve)
Fae/Fay (sometimes used as a Faith variant)
Lia/Lea (variants of Leah; can also refer to names ending in -lia, like Julia)
Liv (Scandinavian for ā€œlife,ā€ or a variant of Olivia or a nod to St. Oliver or Our Lady of Olives)
Mae/May (a Mary variant)
Mia (a form of Maria in several languages)
Ora (like ā€œora pro nobisā€)
Paz (means ā€œpeaceā€ in Spanish; could be for Our Lady of Peace)
Pia (feminine form of Pius/Pio)
Via (like the Via Dolorosa)
Zoe (St. Catherine Laboureā€™s birth name)

And for boys:

Cam (a river in England)
Eli (for the prophet)
Gus (for St. Augustine)
Ivo (Ivo is a variant of Yves/Ives, as in St. Yves and Burl Ives)
Jay (could refer to James/Jacob/Jason, but Iā€™ve also seen it as a standalone name)
Jon (nice that a variant spelling fits so well into their pattern!)
Pio (for St. Pio, or could refer to any of the Sts. Pius)
Ray (for Raymond, or on its own)
Roy (can mean ā€œking,ā€ which could refer to Jesus)

A good way to continue the pattern without being tied in to number of letters is to use one-syllable middles like Clare, Rose, Maeve, Pierce, Carl, Jamesā€”a one-syllable middle with a long first is a nice balance.

And those are my ideas! What do you all think about continuing Heather and her hubs’ current pattern of long first name+three-letter middle? What names would you suggest that would go well as a sister for Elizabeth/Lizzie and Maximilian/Max? Can you think of any other three-letter names, in case they want to continue it? Heather would love your ideas, so please jump right in!

62 thoughts on “Baby name consultation: Heather from the Go Forth podcast! (Continue long+short or not?)”

  1. I love this consultation. These are some of my favorite names! I agree that Katherine is a great option for them, because of St. Catherine and the nickname Kay. I love Rosemary for them, too. It’s a good compromisse between a long and a short name, because she could go by Rose, which is a short name on itself.

    But using Kay as a middle would be perfect: another 3 letter family middle name! And I like how a longer first name sounds with a short middle. So here are some ideas: Magdalene Kay (Maggie), Felicity Kay (Fliss), Genevieve Kay (Ginny) and Beatrice Kay (Bea).

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  2. How about Cecily? I have been watching the mini series The Winter Queen (about the Wars of the Roses) and a couple of the royal characters are called Cecily. Cece would still work as a nickname.

    They could also look for variants of names they like. Catriona or Katerina or Kathleen, etc., for Catherine. Marguerite for Margaret, which could have Maggie or Peggy or Meg or Maisie or Daisy, etc. as a nickname. Marianne would allow for any if the nicknames for Mary or Anne, from Molly to Annie.

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  3. I don’t have any new suggestions, but I love this consultation because their taste is really similar to mine!

    The only things I’d throw out there is that people tend to have strong preferences on the spelling of C/Katha/erine. It can almost feel like a different name once you’ve settled on the one you like best. That said, if they liked switching to the K spelling, that would be a great way to honor Heather’s mom.

    I also wanted to chime in on the Elizabeth-Edith conundrum. Our oldest is Elisabeth and Edith is one of my very favorite names. However, our Elisabeth doesn’t go by I nickname and it’s likely any Edith we had wouldn’t either. I’ve decided that in our case, it would be too similar since I’m 39 and if we are able to add to our family at this point, it’s likely that would be our final child. It would leave our third child/second daughter as the only sister without a name beginning with E and ending with -th.

    However, in Heather’s case, the situation is much different. Her Elizabeth goes by Lizzie and most likely will go by Liz into adulthood. There’s not a middle sister who might feel left out. And Heather is closer to the beginning of her family. So for these reasons, I wouldn’t say Edith would need to be ruled out. I also don’t think it’s SO similar to Elizabeth that it would make naming another daughter (down the line) impossible. So those are my thoughts on that!

    I love all their ideas and your suggestions. I think they should name the baby something that has a good flow and not worry about the long-short thing. If it continues, great! It’s a nice way to have a melodic sounding name, but if it doesn’t continue, that’s ok. I don’t think it would bother some children to have that pattern and others not to. As long as the parents love the name and project their love of it to each child, it’s doubtful the children will compare that kind of thing very much.

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  4. While the Kay is more common, I know some women named Cay. That could be a nickname for Catherine (along with or instead of Cate) so to make the connection to grandmother, not necessarily in middle slot or same spelling.

    Clare could be used in middle spot. While it is 5 letters (in stead of 3) since it is one syllable that to me is always short like Kate pointed out. I think Catherine Clare is lovely.

    I do think that if they go with the long first, short middle with a 3rd it seems more like an established pattern to continue, but as Kate pointed out it isn’t really a hard one to continue – lots of options.

    Another option is switch it up- short first, long middle. I also like Clare Catherine or Clare Therese so they could use the name they don’t care for as a first.

    Or what about a variation of Therese since it isn’t a favorite for a first name? I love Tess and it would be a wonderful short middle. Catherine Tess or in combo with some of the long names Kate suggested.

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  6. Just a couple little thoughts. My favorite option for them is Clare, because it sounds sweet with the other kids’ nicknames, and it breaks their pattern in case they don’t want to feel stuck in it, but it still goes nicely (because of the obvious saintliness) with the other full names too! Except Clare doesn’t go so swell with Kay. Hmm.

    Also, I agree with Grace above that Elizabeth + Edith seems totally fine for them to me! I think they go together quite nicely, and not too match your since Elizabeth’s e is usually said as a short e, and Edith’s as a long e. Especially if most people would likely know them as Lizzie and Edie. Adorable! Edith Kay (or other K-name) and nn Edie Kay might be cute.
    As a side note I think Lizzie and Zelie are more “too close” than Elizabeth and Edith.

    But honestly most of the names on their list and yours would be great. So…happy naming!

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  7. Clare is a really nice match for this set.

    If they want longer first names, Jacinta Kay could work. Nickname: Jaci (pronounced Jaycee). Faustina Clare also sounds good.

    Either of those names fits with their modern saint theme.

    Gemma could be a nice bridge. Not too long, but nit extremely short either. Maybe Gemma Therese?

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  8. Your M___+ K___ suggestions got me all swoony, Kate. Love love love.

    And more of a tangent than anything else, my aunt Cecilia goes by “Cele,” (cee- lee) so that’s another nickname option!

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  9. Ooh, I missed your Julia Noelle comment before!

    Ven. Pierre Toussaint was married to the live of his life, Juliet Noelle, and I have a soft spot in my heart for both of them. Ever since reading about them, I’ve been tempted to use one their names, but I can’t get past Romeo & Juliet – especially the Disney song from Thumbelina. And names that are too French don’t blend well where I live.

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  10. I love all of these suggestions but Mary Katherine or Molly Katherine/Kay are my favorites for them.

    I know I’m in the minority here but I don’t think 3 starts a “thing,” especially something not super noticeable like length of first and middle names. I’d hate for them to choose a name they’re not 100% sold on for this baby or a future one just so it fits in (or creates) an established pattern.

    I have 3 boys with R middles, and future kids won’t have R middles because we honor loved ones with middles and none of the people left on our list are Rs! And I honestly don’t think they will care at all. I suppose certain types of personalities might be more sensitive to a “left out” feeling, but I’d rather explain to them that we chose a meaningful name we loved instead of sticking with a letter pattern.

    My older sister and brother have N names and the same initials and my first and middle are different and I never felt left out or different because of it. In fact, I never thought of it until I read this blog!

    I’d just say pick the name you love best and is most meaningful!

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    • I can see the left out feeling happening in certain circumstances or with certain personalities, but not with something like length of first + middle. It’s just not enough of a pattern. It’s not like Elizabeth and Maximilian even have the same number of letters. And a kid would have to have a serious chip on their shoulder already to start counting letters in their siblings’ names and comparing them to their own.
      My first and second daughter both have one 9-letter name and one 5-letter name (one has the 9-letter name as her first name, the other has the 5-letter name as her middle name). I thought this was cool when I noticed it, but it doesn’t really create a pattern. The 5-letter middle name that my older daughter has is one syllable. The 5-letter first name that my second daughter has is three syllables and has a completely different vibe. I am 100% sure that the girls have never realized that both of them have 14 letters in their first and middle names and that they share this in common. (They are 15 and 8, so old enough to count the letters in their names if they wanted to.) I just don’t think this type of thing is ENOUGH of a pattern for it to be established or upset. It’s just choosing names that sound well together. For melodic reasons, it often works well for first and middle names to be of varying lengths, so that’s why we often see pairings like that…but it’s not universal and just not obvious enough to be called a pattern.

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    • “I never thought of it until I read this blog” oh no! I definitely don’t want to create dissatisfaction with anyone’s name! You make such a good point though about how “certain types of personalities might be more sensitive to a ‘left out’ feeling” — I’ve definitely seen that, and your solution to “explain to them that we chose a meaningful name we loved” is perfect.

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      • Ha, Kate! I love the blog and didn’t feel bad. It was more like “oh, I didn’t realize siblings names sounding good together was so important to people!”

        I’m happy being the A in a family of Ns! They had Nicholas picked out for me but then I came out a girl! There was already a cousin Nicole so that was out. Mom suggested Nancy and dad shot it down. I’m glad they didn’t settle on a name they didn’t like as much just because it was an N. I do find it kind of funny that my sister’s name is Nara, which I’ve only heard one other time ever. And mine is one of the most popular of the ’80s. But in their defense, I was the only one in our small town! šŸ™‚

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      • This is so interesting! I’ve never heard of Nara, wow! And I do know a Nancy born in the 80s, which I always find surprising — so interesting that your mom liked it too!

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      • My dad and his siblings have some names/initials that match and some that don’t, and I know among the males that they truly don’t care. Maybe they did when they all lived together (I doubt it) but it’s been 50 years since then.

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      • On discussion boards where parents are fretting about whether their children’s names go together, I often see people reminding the parents that the period of time in which the kids will be part of the sibling group is really very short — for most of their lives people will just know them as themselves and not as the brother/sister of so-and-so. I hate to think about that because I love all my babies being right here under my wing, but it’s so true!

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  11. I would totally go with “Catherine Clare”. It’s names you both like, it follows the same sort of pattern”, and “Catie”, “Kitty”, “Cece”, etc. are all adorable nicknames.

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  12. rosie from a blog for my mom has an elizabeth and an edith. actually it’s an elizabeth ann too!

    I would definitely focus on the kay middle name, it’s too good not to! So many longer day would go so well with it, maybe something irish for dad? Roisin Kay? that would definitely break the pattern.

    It’s a pity clare and kay don’t too well together, maybe adding an extra middle name? Clare Zelie Kay? Clare Edith Kay?

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  14. Ahhh, this! “Margaret and Elizabeth are also two of the three ā€œtimeless English trioā€ names, according to the BNW (the other is Katherine!), so they definitely go together as sisters.”

    I love it! These names are two of the others in my own sister set (Victoria is our 4th!). My parents obviously didn’t have the BNW to consult, but I think they did such a lovely job with our names. We had a very English surname, too.

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    • I have, all my life, thought of Elizabeth, Catherine, and Margaret being, like, THE name trio. Waaaay before BNW was ever written. I had dolls named this in the 80’s.

      We have an Elisabeth and Catherine is our second daughter’s middle name. I’m not sure if we’ll ever have a Margaret, though!

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      • Yes! I’ve often marveled at seeing pre-BNW families with kids who have names exactly like those the BNW lists together — which I think is the genius of the computer program or whatever that Laura wrote — it really nails people’s tastes more often than not I find!

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  16. So hard for me to weigh in as I love so many of these names! Elizabeth and Catherine are amazing sisters and Clare is so lovely! The Mary combos have such an amazing Catholic vibe to them.

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  17. So after listening to the podcast today, it occurred to me that if they went with Clare, that would be three things associated with Dad’s side of the family (his mom’s middle name, his dad’s middle name, street he grew up on), and nothing associated with Heather’s family. That is making me really like the suggestion of Maura Kay. It has a lovely flow, and it honors Heather’s mom, both with using her middle name and her initials.

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  19. Elizabeth and Claire always have the same feeling/association to me, so it was no surprise when that was the first suggestion. I also like the idea of breaking from a pattern on the third so that you are not stuck. I will try to do that with my kids (my first two start with K and I am pregnant with another).

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  20. Kay seems like the perfect middle for this next baby. Honoring grandma is important. Yes, it keeps the 3-letter theme going, but it also keeps family honor name theme going, or personal significance theme. I don’t think you are tied to using a three letter middle for every other (God willing) child’s name. Just widen the theme.
    After listening to the podcast, I am all about Maura Kay. I like the MK initials. Maura has similar sounds to Marcia, so that is nice extra bonus.

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  21. Another fun note about Mary _____ names, since she loves St. Therese (so do I!), is that St. Therese and all her siblings’ (including the boys!) first names were Marie and went by their middle names.

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