Baby Name Wizard

Baby name consultant: Saintly, different first initials, easy to spell

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Caitlin and her husband are expecting their third little one, gender unknown (another green bean!). Their daughters are named:

Claire Camille
Margaret Joyce (called Maggie)

Beautiful names! Caitlin writes,

“Their middle names are our paternal grandmothers’ first names. We’d like to continue that tradition, so we have the following names left to work with:

Jacqueline
Shirley
Paul
Francis
William
Warren

We’d like all of our children’s first names to be their patron saints. We gravitate towards classic English/Irish/Scottish names to tie in with our cultural heritage and our last name — Burch … We would like to do different first initials for everyone … And it has to be easy to spell.”

To give you a further idea of their taste, for boys Caitlin and her husband have considered:

James
Thomas
Henry
Patrick
Peter
George
Benedict

And for girls:

Alice
Beatrice
Helen(a)
Felicity
Jane
Julia
Agnes

Lots of names to work with! After much thinking and musing and taking to my Baby Name Wizard book for ideas, I came up with several ideas for each gender — I always shoot for three, but I had four for each that seemed so spot on to me that I couldn’t narrow it down any further:

Girls
(1) Alice
I was so excited to see that Caitlin and her husband had discussed Alice! It was the first one I had on the list I’d made for her as I was reading her email! I love Alice as a sister to Claire and Margaret/Maggie, and from their family names, I really like the idea of Pauline for Paul — Alice Pauline has such a lovely ring to it, I love it.

(2) Lydia
Lydia is one of my favorite names, and I was delighted to see it pop up in my research. I love that it looks short-ish like Claire but has the same number of syllables as Margaret. I quite like Lydia Shirley or Lydia Jacqueline or Lydia Frances (for Francis of course).

(3) Louisa (nicked Lucy?)
Both Louisa and Lucy seemed like good options for this family — luckily I don’t think they have to choose! Lucy is such a natural nickname for Louisa in my opinion. Louisa totally has the Brit feel of Claire and Margaret, and Lucy is spunky and sweet. Louisa Jacqueline? Louisa Pauline? Louisa Frances?

(4) Eleanor or Violet
Charlotte and Eleanor were names that seemed spot on as sisters for Claire and Margaret, but Charlotte repeats the C initial, and at the time I did this consultation for Caitlin I was still of the opinion that Eleanor is not a saint’s name (I’ve since revised my thinking — there’s a good argument that it can be considered to be related to Helen(a), which was on the list of names Caitlin and her husband have discussed). Both Charlotte and Eleanor pointed me to Violet, and as soon as I saw it I thought it would work well — it can be considered Marian, which is so awesome. I really like Eleanor Frances, Eleanor Pauline, Violet Shirley, Violet Pauline, and Violet Frances.

Boys
(1) Henry
Like with Alice, Henry was my #1 suggestion for Caitlin even before I read that it’s one of the names they’ve discussed! Woo! I love Henry, and it seems a smashing brother name for Claire and Margaret. I like it best as Henry William, and Henry Francis has a really nice flow to it, but it always makes me think of Betty’s second husband in Mad Men (Henry Francis). I learned recently though that I’m dating myself by being influenced by Mad Men, so maybe it’s a non issue? It’s very handsome!

(2) Samuel or Benjamin
Samuel and Sam (Sam!) are great great names and a perfect fit for a brother of Claire and Margaret/Maggie. I like Samuel Francis best, but Samuel Warren works too. And Benjamin has a similar feel to me, and is a bit closer to the feel of Claire and Margaret than is Benedict (from their list), in my opinion. Benjamin Paul is nice because Benjamin is so long and Paul so short; I like Benjamin Francis a lot too.

(3) Edward or Edmund
I love Sts. Edward the Confessor and Edmund Campion — how to choose?! Haha! They’re both British-y, and they both have really cute nickname options (Ed/Eddie, Ted/Teddy, Ned … my dad even had a friend named Edward who went by Zeb!). Edward Francis, Edward William, Edward Warren, Edmund Francis all sound great to me.

(4) Joseph
What else to say? Joseph is classic, masculine, saintly, just. Joseph Paul, Joseph William, and Joseph Warren all work well; I’m not including Joseph Francis because of the ph and F running into each other, but I don’t hate it.

Those are my ideas! What do you all think? What other ideas do you have for a brother or sister to Claire and Maggie?

Baby name consultant: Ideas needed for #5 green bean

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Laura and her husband are expecting their fifth baby! (“Green bean” because they don’t know if they’re having a boy or girl. Like “Team Green.” I’m kind of crushing on calling the babe a green bean! Is it weird? Or really cute? I’m thinking cute!)

She writes,

“You must get tons of these requests all of the time, but if you have time, could you say a little prayer for our little one on the way and maybe even suggest a name or two?“

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — it is nothing short of a privilege to play a role in naming a baby! You all have given me such joy by asking me for my thoughts/suggestions/ideas, and be assured I pray for each of you and your babies.

Back to Laura! Her other kids are named:

Isabella Jane (called Bella)
Christian James
Gabriel Wayne
Quinn Michael

So many of my favorite notes are hit with this sib set!

Since Laura told me they’re “totally drawing blanks” and “kind of at a loss,” I tried to come up with some extra names for them (I always shoot for three, but was able to come up with four for girls and five for boys):

Girls
(1) Juliana
As you all know, I almost always start with the Baby Name Wizard book when coming up with suggestions, as it provides a list of boy and girl names similar in style/feel/popularity for each entry. Since Isabella is Laura’s only girl, I used the girl suggestions for her name as inspiration more than the boys’ names, and Juliana was a top suggestion for her. I love it for this family — I think it fits in so well with all the other kids.

(2) Hannah or Anna
Hannah was a match for a bunch of the names I looked up — both names they’ve used already and ones that seemed like a good fit. It’s soft and sweet, and Hannah’s story in the Bible is so great. Hannah is a form of Anna, and Anna popped up in my research as well, so it seemed a perfect suggestion.

(3) Lily
Lily reminds me a lot of Quinn — short and punchy; it’s also similar in style to a lot of names that seem like ones Laura and her husband would like. It’s also Marian, which you all know is probably my very favorite kind of name!

(4) Sofia/Sophie or Fiona
These two seem so similar in sound to me that I included them as part of the same suggestion. Sofia (or Sophia) or just Sophie as a given name is really similar to Isabella in my opinion — pretty, feminine, and popular — while Fiona brings in the Irish feel like Quinn. I like them both, a lot.

Boys
(1) Owen
Owen is far and away my first suggestion for this family for a boy. Quinn feels a little bit like an outsider, with a different style and feel from his brothers, and I feel like Owen bridges that gap really nicely.

(2) Nicholas (nicked Cole?)
Nicholas leans more toward the feel and style of Christian and Gabriel to me, which is great, but using a nickname like Cole brings Quinn right back in again. I love Nicholas nicked Cole (we seriously considered it for my youngest).

(3) Austin
Laura’s taste reminds me a lot of one of the consultations I did a while ago where the family has an Austin and a Christian and one of the daughter’s middle name is Isabel. Austin is fun because it started out as a contracted form of Augustine — so it’s heavy hitting saint-wise without hitting you over the head with it. And it’s got that British Isles feel that I could see Quinn fitting in easily with.

(4) Luke/Lucas
Luke and Lucas both showed up a lot in my research as similar to a lot of Laura’s picks and other names that I suspected might be ones she and her hubs might like. They’re great, solid names — Biblical like Christian and Gabriel, short and punchy like Quinn.

(5) Jude
I was particularly interested in the boy names that the Baby Name Wizard suggested as similar to Quinn, and one of my faves was Finn … but that’s out since it rhymes with Quinn, so I looked up Finn and saw Jude and immediately thought it made a lot of sense for this family. (In case it’s helpful, the others similar to Quinn are Donovan, Reid, Owen, Wyatt, and Griffin.)

I thought I’d share the other names I almost suggested but ended up deleting for whatever reason, in case they’re helpful: Abigail, Chloe, Colin, Caleb, and Charles nicked Charlie.

Those are my ideas! What do you all think? What else would you suggest for Laura’s new little baby-on-the-way?

Baby name consultant: Isabel, Maggie, Julia, Olivia, or … ?

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Jennie and Matthew are expecting their fourth baby, a girl. Jennie writes,

“We seem to be stuck at an impasse with a few names we like, but none that we can really agree on … We tend to like fairly traditional names. I really love a lot of the flowery vintage type names, but my husband tends to like the more classical names (not that the two are necessarily mutually exclusive).”

This baby girl will be joining three siblings:

Hannah Claire
Abigail Elizabeth (often goes by Abby, but not always)
Lucas Francis (called both Lucas and Luke)

I love their style! Currently, their top favorites for baby girl #3 are:

Margaret (we would most likely call her Maggie)
Isabel
Julia (We also like Juliet, but wonder if she would get too many Romeo jokes)

Says Jennie,

“Lately, I have been favoring Isabel, although one of my best friends has a daughter with the same name, so I am slightly hesitant to use it. I also wonder if it would fit with the style of our other children’s names?
My husband’s favorite of the list is Maggie. I like it and definitely think it would fit well with our other kids’ names, but I also think it is a tiny bit boring (no offense to any Maggies out there). We like the name Julia, but our kids have a cousin named Julia. She’s a little bit older than they are and lives in a different state, but nonetheless, I’m still unsure if we should use it.

A few names that we like, but that are out for various reasons: Genevieve, Josephine, Emma (and Emily), Amelia, Lily, Madeline, Catherine and any variation of Mary (sad, I know, but my husband has a sister named Mary and refuses to use the name because of her). I also want to try to stay away from another Old Testament girl’s name, despite the fact that there are a few I like.

We are also stuck on a middle name. I was rooting for Faustina, but my husband says “no way.” I also like the more common Grace and Rose, but we would prefer a strong feminine saint name. We were thinking of Avila or Siena. What do you think?

First off, some thoughts about Jennie and Matthew’s current ideas and answers to their questions about them:

Isabel is lovely! It’s my favorite of the Isabel(le/a) names, sweet and sophisticated all in one. Regarding whether it fits with the other kids’ names — you all know that I usually start my consultations with the Baby Name Wizard book as it offers, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. According to the BNW, Isabel definitely fits with the other kids! It’s listed as similar to both Lily and Madelyn, which are similar to all three of your kids’ names. Nice job, Jennie and Matthew! The other kids’ names are all biblical, but then Isabel is too, as it’s a form of Elizabeth. It’s a nice way to take their style in a new direction. I will just caution that since Elizabeth has already been used as Abby’s middle name, namiacs (like me) would notice that you technically used the name twice, but there’s certainly no rule against it, and most people will never know Abby’s middle (unless they/she tells them), and Elizabeth and Isabel look so different that many may never even notice.

Re: Margaret/Maggie, I agree Maggie is just adorable. I wonder, if Jennie worries that Maggie is too boring, if Magdalene or Magdalena would spice it up enough for her? It’s a New Testament name, so like with Isabel, it adheres to their established style while also taking it in a new direction. And Madeline is a variant of Magdalene, so it would kind of like be using Madeline (which Jennie said she liked) but not (since she said they couldn’t use it). Though Maggie could be the everyday nickname, Jennie would have the fun of knowing that the full first name is unexpected.

Re: Julia and Juliet, again, just lovely. Julia’s a New Testament name as well, and Juliet is a diminutive of Julia (though it’s true that it’s usually used on its own), so it’s possible to name the baby Julia and use Juliet as a nickname (which might help with cousins having the same given name), or they could name her Juliet knowing that they’re giving her a variant of a New Testament name, which all ties back into the established style. (And no, I don’t think Romeo makes Juliet un-doable. I love Juliet!)

So really, of their three current ideas, I don’t think they can go wrong!!!

I love Avila and Siena (and Faustina, Grace, and Rose) as middle names (or first names) for girls, absolutely wonderful, all! I like the sound of Isabel Avila, Margaret Avila or Margaret Siena, Magdalene Siena, Julia Siena, Juliet Siena. Some other strong feminine saints that they might like to consider include Therese (of Lisieux), Edith (Stein), Edel (Quinn), Chiara (Luce Badano), Maria (Goretti) … I’m sure I can think of a million more if none of these was quite right …

As for new suggestions – I basically just looked up all the names they’ve already used and those they said they like (including the ones that can’t be used) and tried to find names in the overlapping areas. These were the results (I always shoot for three suggestions, but came up with five):

(1) Olivia
Olivia was the only name that was listed as similar to Hannah, Abigail, and Lucas. How cool! It’s not biblical as a name, but certainly there are loads of lovely references to olives in the bible, which to me make a nice connection with the other kids’ names. A mama I did a consultation for recently named her daughter Olive in large part because of how much she loved Psalm 128:3: “Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your home, Your children like young olive plants around your table.” (She actually used the middle name Faustina, and loved the connection between St. Faustina and the Divine Mercy, and the writings of St. Oliver Plunkett, who she took as the baby’s patron, which talked about divine mercy.)

(2) Caroline or Charlotte (nicked Callie?)
Charlotte and Caroline were all over the spreadsheet I made of my research for this baby! They, as a name family, had hands down the most similarity to the names Jennie and Matthew like than any other name. Even the nickname Callie was included, showing up as similar to Maggie. I love these names because of their connection to St. John Paul (born Karol=Charles), and I know a bunch of people who have considered and/or used Karoline or Karolina, so that’s an option as well.

(3) Helen(a) or Eleanor (nicked Ellie or Ella?)
Helen, Helena, and Eleanor all share similar sounds and nicknames, so I’m grouping them together here. They all did quite well in my research, as did Ellie and Ella. St. Helena is a great patron saint for a little girl too, so if you didn’t care for it in the first name spot, maybe in the middle, since she was a strong female saint?

(4) Sofia/Sophia or Sophie
I started with Olivia, because it was the only name that fit all three of the other kids’ names’ style, and then listed the name that had the most similarity to Jennie and Matthew’s entire name list (Charlotte/Caroline), then the second most (Helena/Eleanor), and now the third most – both Sofia and Sophie scored high for this family, with Sophie being just a bit closer to their style. As with Olivia, Sophie isn’t a biblical name, but it is a biblical idea – there’s even a book of the bible named Wisdom. St. Madeleine Sophie Barat is also a great saint, so maybe Sophie as a middle name if they didn’t care for it as a first?

(5) Miscellaneous
There were a bunch of names that did well for Jennie and Matthew, but not well enough to include in my top suggestions. But I wanted to list them anyway:
— Chloe (New Testament)
— Cecilia/Celia (great saint)
— Lydia (New Testament)
— Evangeline (biblical idea, and has similar feel to the names they like but can’t use — Genevieve and Josephine)
— Violet (can be considered Marian, maybe a nice workaround for the Mary issue?)
— Grace (they’d thought of it as a middle, but maybe they’d like to consider it for a first name? Also Marian)

** Between when I emailed Jennie back with my ideas and today, she wrote me this:

“One recent development is that the name Olivia is currently really growing on me. And I like the combination of Olivia Benedicta because “Benedicta” means blessing and I believe the Benedictine order has an olive on their crest, so the two names go together. Also, our daughter’s patroness would be St. Teresa Benedicta (Edith Stein) whom I really like and admire … my only reservation about Olivia is its huge popularity. Help!“

I loooooove the idea of Olivia Benedicta!! What a great combo!! I would absolutely encourage Jennie and Matthew with this choice — I love the much-beloved and familiar Olivia paired with the heavy duty Benedicta, just wonderful!!

As for “much-beloved” — Olivia is indeed super duper uber popular right now — take a look:

olivia

So popularity is definitely an issue. My usual fallback in such cases is to suggest the name Livia. It’s so similar to Olivia, but much much less popular. Though it looks like Olivia with the O hacked off, it’s actually a name in its own right, with a long history of use going back to ancient Rome. It also has some Irish connection, in that the River Liffey, which flows through Dublin, has been personified in literature (a character in James Joyce’s Finnegan’s Wake) and art (a sculpture in Dublin) as a woman named Anna Livia, a play on the river’s name in Irish: Abhainn na Life. Livia also allows for the great Olivia nicknames of Liv and Livvy. I think people might have a tendency to think I’m crazy when I suggest Livia instead of Olivia — like, will it really make that much of a difference?? — but it does to me, so … there you go! 🙂

livia

Another name I sometimes to suggest to those who love Olivia but not the popularity is Avila — it’s got similar letters and sounds as Olivia and I think it could take the nicks Liv and Livvy AND it’s on Jennie and Matthew’s list as a possible middle! But it has a very different feel than Olivia, and while an argument can be made for Olivia having biblical connections via the abundance of olives in Scripture, there’s no biblical connection with Avila, and so it takes it that much farther away from the style of big sibs Hannah, Abigail, and Lucas. It’s also quite similar in appearance to Abigail. (It hasn’t been in the top 1000 in recent years, so no popularity graph to show.)

In this case, though, where one of the things that’s appealing about Olivia to Jennie is the olive connection, neither Livia nor Avila would likely work, since they have no connection to olives. So then I would suggest Olive itself. It’s risen somewhat rapidly in popularity over the last few years, but is still fairly uncommon:

olive

It too can take the nicknames Liv and Livvy (you all know how I am about nicknames! And Liv/Livvy is my favorite part of Olivia — they’re just so sweet! So being able to retain the nicks even while using a different name would be a plus for me).

So those are all my ideas/thoughts/suggestions! What do you all think? What comments do you have about the current ideas (including Olivia Benedicta), and what other suggestions do you have for Jennie and Matthew?

Baby name consultant: Boy #3 needs a name!

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Anna emailed with a dilemma I’d not yet encountered here! First, her other boys are named:

Theodore Randell (called Teddy)
William Gerald (called William or Will)

Such handsome combos! Anna writes,

“We are drawn toward strong classic names that (hopefully) aren’t overly common and that have cute (but not cutesy) nicknames that can grow or evolve with the boys. Randell and Gerald are the first names of our fathers and fit with the strong classic name theme. We LOVE the names Charles Russell (Charlie) buuuuuut, we have a cat named Charlie. Try as we might, I don’t know that we can get past the association with our darn cat. 😉 “

Ack!

“I especially appreciate your ability to come up with alternate nicknames, as I am so NOT creative in that sense! … Russell is DH’s late grandfather’s name. At one point we considered it as a first name but were at a loss for suitable nicknames (Russ and Rusty are out and… that’s as far as my creativity goes with nicknames).”

My first thought was: Charles Russell is an amazing combination!! So handsome, and such a perfect match with brothers Theodore Randell and William Gerald. I’m so impressed!

Second, a cat named Charlie! Oof! That’s a really hard thing to work around! One possible way is to use a nickname for Charles that’s not Charlie. There was an Appellation Mountain post a while back with unusual nicknames for Charles — Cal is one of my favorites for it, and some other really offbeat ideas (I tend to love offbeat nicknames) like Chase or Huck (if Chuck, why not Huck?), which made me think Hutch might work too. I like all those, and I’ll also offer that one of my boys goes exclusively by a nickname for his middle name, so that’s a possibility too.

Which brings me to her question about Russell nicknames. I’m a little crazy about nicknames — I can almost always come up with some!! 🙂 A lot of times they’re just too out there for people, but … what about:

(1) Sully
This is hands down my favorite nickname idea for Russell! Sully is just taking the Russell letters and mixing them up a bit. Also, when I say Russell, the “ssell” ending sounds a lot like “sull” to my ear, so Sully seems a natural extension nickname for Russell. I love it!

(2) Rob(bie) or Rod(dy) or Rory
Another way I like to come up with nicknames is by combining elements of the first name with elements of the second. A combination like Russell Bernard or Russell Benedict might lend itself to a nickname like Rob or Robbie — the R from Russell and the B from the middle name. Or maybe something like Russell David or Russell Daniel? Which could lead to Rod or Roddy, both of which I think are really cute (like Roddy McDowell!). Or maybe Roddy’s too close to Teddy? I’m not sure what I think. I could also see Rory working as a nickname for Russell Bernard or Russell Robert, where there’s the R from the first name and R’s in the middle as well.

(3) Rudy or Ray
The idea of Russell David made me think of Rudy as well. It’s a more obvious nickname for Russell David (and really, I could see Rudy being a nickname for Russell anyway, regardless of middle name). Funny enough, I looked up Rudy in my Baby Name Wizard book, which I rely on a lot for inspiration in these consultations, and it said Teddy is similar in style and feel! So cool! And the movie Rudy would be so fun to show a little Rudy when he grew up. I also thought Ray could work — just because it seems like a short form of an R name. Ray could also be a firstname+middlename combo nickname, like from Russell Avery or Russell Aidan or similar.

So those are my thoughts for nicknames. As for other ideas for first names, I always shoot for three, and this is what I came up with:

(1) Louis
Going back to the Baby Name Wizard book, it has this awesome feature where it provides, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. It’s often pretty spot-on for predicting other names parents might like, based on the names they’ve already used and/or are considering. Louis was shown to be similar to both Theodore and Charles, which I thought was amazing. Louis is distinguished and saintly, and the nickname Louie is adorable. I know a little Louis nicked Louie, and he’s a great kid, so I have only positive associations for this name. Louis Russell?

(2) Henry
Henry also did quite well for this family in the BNW book — similar to Theodore, William, and Charles! And Harry, which is a traditional nickname for Henry, was shown to be similar to Charlie. I also like the nickname Hank. Henry Russell sounds quite nice to me.

(3) Edward
I was reluctant to suggest this, since Anna calls her Theodore “Teddy,” but Edward was shown to be similar to William and Charles (and Edmund to Theodore). It’s totally workable I think — Edward could go by the nickname Ward (which I’ve seen), or — and this is crazy! — my dad once worked with a man named Edward who went by Zeb! I like Edward Russell a lot.

So those are my ideas for this new little boy! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for Theodore/Teddy and William/Will’s little brother?

I love to do name consultations! If you’d like me to give your name dilemma a go, check out my Baby name consultant tab.

Baby name consultant: Brother to Miles

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Haley and her husband are expecting their second baby, and second boy! Their first little boy is:

Miles Howard

which I love, so handsome! She writes,

“I love that Miles is a strong name, especially paired with Howard, named after my grandfather/father … Our last name … proves to make things a little more difficult as it is such a guttural, one-syllable name … I do think it’s important for a least one half of a name (whether first or middle), be connected to a family member whose character I would wish my child to look up to.”

Some family names they could consider include:

Joseph
Spencer
Strong
Lee
Francis
Mark
James
Bowen
Jacob
Henry
Clegg
Andrew
Hyer

Other boy names they’ve discussed include:

Micah
Lane
Donovan
Philip
Henry

although, according to Haley,

“Thus far Henry is the only name still viable from that list, as Jake thinks Micah is a girl’s name … Lane is also one I really like, but I’m not sure how I like it with [our last name] … Donovan is Jake’s choice as of late (he likes that it has “Don,” as both our grandfathers were Donalds), but overall the name does not resonate with me at all. Philip is another one of my choices that Jake feels is too nerdy … where he gets that from, don’t ask me! Henry we both can agree on, although my hesitation is on its current popularity … For girls, we considered Sloane and Anna, but in the end I was completely set on Anna Louise.”

First off, Haley’s husband made me laugh — he sounds JUST LIKE mine! I’ve long loved Micah but it’s a no go, Philip was on my list for a long time, and Donovan! My hubs has bugged me about that name for years because he was a big fan of Dononvan McNabb when he played for the Eagles. (He’s sort of joking.) (Sort of.)

(I will admit though that I kind of love Donovan as an honor name for a Donald!)

I love their ideas, and Henry too (especially because it’s a family name!), and they all gave me a lot to work with inspiration wise. So I always shoot for three suggestions, but I came up with four for Haley’s second little guy:

(1) Colin
As you all know, I use the Baby Name Wizard book a lot when thinking of ideas/suggestions for people — it has this awesome feature where, for each entry, it lists boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. Colin was listed as a style match for Miles, and Cale as similar to Lane, and Charles as similar to Philip and Henry — Colin, Cale, and Charles all strike me as somewhat similar in that they visually look similar and if you consider that a viable nickname for Charles is Cal, there’s a sound similarity among the three as well. Colin was my favorite of them for Haley — I get a little bit of a fun vibe from Miles, and Charles doesn’t seem to fit that quite as well, and Cale doesn’t sound great with her last name. Using the family names she listed as possibles, I love Colin Francis, Colin James, and Colin Spencer.

(2) Isaac
Isaac was another that was listed as similar to Miles, and it seemed right in line with the feel of Micah as well (without the being-used-for-girls baggage). I love the name Isaac, and I think brothers Isaac and Miles sound awesome together. I quite like Isaac Francis, Isaac Bowen, Isaac James.

(3) Spencer
According to the BNW Spencer is a style match for Donovan! And it’s a family name! I can definitely see brothers Miles and Spencer, and Spencer sounds nice with a one-syllable last name. My favorite first-middle combos for Spencer would be Spencer Francis (two family names! So cool) and Spencer James.

(4) Samuel
Samuel fits the general areas Haley’s taste is swirling, and Sam is such a great nickname. And Miles and Samuel as brothers — so great! They sound like they just stepped off the Mayflower, in the best way possible. Samuel Francis, Samuel Bowen, and Samuel Jacob are all quite handsome.

Other names that seemed to fit but that didn’t make my final cut for whatever reason, are: Thomas, Asher, Emmett, Jasper, and Elliott.

Those are my ideas for Haley’s little boy! What do you all think? What names would you recommend for Miles’ baby brother?

On my bookshelf: A Dictionary of English Surnames

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I saw A Dictionary of English Surnames (3rd Edition) by P.H. Reaney and R.M. Wilson recommended in a thread on the Baby Name Wizard site a while ago, referred to as a source of info for first names, and maybe I was the tiniest bit skeptical (how does surname info translate into first name info?) but the person recommending it was a longtime reader/commenter on the site and one whose knowledge base I had come to find dependable, so I bought a used copy.

It took me a little while to get into it. I like to read name books — sit down and read — and this book initially didn’t seem to lend itself to that — the type is small and it has a very dictionary feel (where dictionary=small type, lots of words on a page, lots of technical abbreviations that you always feel like you’re supposed to understand without checking out the key at the beginning of the book, maybe a little overwhelming). But I kept at it, picking it up here and there for a couple minutes each time. I started out by looking up my own last name, and those of people I know, and I really started to get into it. For one thing, there are loads of surnames that are considered “English surnames” for the purposes of this book, that I would never have thought! Like Devereaux. Because “English surname”=surnames used by people living in England, and this book cites instances going back to the 1000s. So, using Devereaux as an example:

“Deveraux, Devereaux, Devereu, Devereux, Deveroux, Deverose, Everix, Everiss, Everest, Everist: Roger de Ebrois 1086 DB (Nf); Walter de Eureus 1159 P (He); Stephen de Euereus 1199 MemR (Wo); Osmund de Deuereals ib. ( W); Eustace de Deueraus 1204 P (So); Thomas de Euereus, Deuereus 1279 AssSo; John de Ebroicis 1297 AssSt; John Deveros 1385 LLB H; Robert Everis 1495 GildY. From Evreux (Eure), from the Celtic tribal name Eburovices ‘dwellers on the Ebura or Eure River’.”

(See what I mean about the abbreviations? A little off-putting, right? Stay with me …)

Did you know that Devereaux and Everest are related? Me either! And did you see those dates? A Roger de Ebrois from Norfolk (Nf) was recorded in DB (Domesday Book) in 1086. 1086! The first fifty seven pages of the book discuss how the surnames used in England came to be, explaining a French name like Devereaux (lots of Norman influence).

And there is indeed loads of info useful for choosing first names. Many of the surnames were patronymics, for one thing, identifying a person by his or her father, and some were metronymics, identifying a person by his or her mother — so those surnames began as first names. Other surnames were nicknames, pet names, or diminutives, either for a person’s characteristics, or for their actual given first name. Some of my favorite discoveries:

Fayle comes from the Irish Mac Giolla Phoil “son of Paul’s servant”

Fiddy, Fido, Fidoe come from the French fitz deu “son of God”

Filkin, Filkins, Filson are diminutives of Phil, which of course is from Philip

Pack, Packe, Paik, Pakes, Pash, Pashe, Paish, Pask, Paske, Pasque, Patch, Patchett, Patchin are all from various words (Old French, Middle English) for Easter; another example is given of William Paskessone, where Paskessone=son of Paske.

Scollas is a last name from the first name Scolace, which “appears to be the vernacular form of [Latin] Scholastica, the name of a saint who was the sister of St Benedict and the first nun of the order. It is found as a christian name in England from the late 12th century until the Reformation.”

Vivian, Vivians, Vivien, Vyvyan, Videan, Vidgen, Vidgeon, Vigeon, Fiddian, Fidgen, Fidgeon, Phethean, Phythian are all from the French Vivian, Vivien, which are from the Latin Vivianus, which is “a derivative of vivus ‘living,’ the name of a 5th-century martyr not uncommon in England from the 12th century. Its pronunciation appears to have caused difficulty and it is found in a bewildering variety of forms, not all of which have survived. In the south, the v was regarded as the normal southern pronunciation of f and was replaced by it. As the child says fum for thumb, and fevver for feather, and the dialect-speaker favver for father, Fivian became Fithian, and this, with the common interchange of intervocalic th and d, gave Fidian. The initial Ph is merely scribal. As Goodier becomes Goodger and Indian is often colloquially Injun, so Fidian became Fidgeon and Vidian, Vidgen. The normal Vivian is much more common than appears from the above forms.”

But my very very favorite discovery was this: Marriott is from “Mari-ot, a very common diminutive of Mary.”

Aren’t these amazing finds?? Can’t you see a baby Philip being called Filkins? What about the Easter names, like Pack, Patch, Pask, Pash, Patchett, and Patchin? I can see them all being used as given names, and what an awesome meaning — offbeat Catholic names are my favorite favorites!

Or wanting to honor Grandma Vivian but expecting a boy? I love Fiddian and Fithian, I see them as absolutely doable. (Also, I posted a fun thing the other day that shows what a full name looks like written out in different styles — like a name you’re considering for your baby, for example — and Laura commented that she found a perhaps unsettling disconnect between the sight and sound of some of her name ideas, so I found it particularly interesting that the Vivian quote above included the note, “The initial Ph is merely scribal.” It’s startling, to us parents who agonize over whether to name our daughters Sophia or Sofia, to think there was a time when the spelling of a name was a very distant afterthought — and maybe never even given a thought at all, until or unless it had to be written down for official reasons, and then only written down by officials, who probably decided how to spell what they heard. I guess it’s not that different from what happened to some at Ellis Island. Fascinating.)

(The Vivian example is also really timely in light of the awesome post up over at Appellation Mountain: 9 Creative Ways to Honor Loved Ones With Your Child’s Name. As I noted on FB, I’ve been wanting to write about this very topic for some time, but Abby did it so well! It’s an awesome resource, and the examples given in the comments are really helpful as well. This book could absolutely help with her first suggestion, “Use another form of the honoree’s name.”)

I am barely scratching the surface with the examples I give here — this book is over 500 pages of small-type info like what I shared above. It’ll take me ages to get through the whole thing, so if any of you read it and come across any other nuggets, please share them here!

 

Baby name consultant: Baby Floyd #4

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Emily and Ben Floyd are expecting their fourth baby, and though they don’t know the gender, they’re “feeling ‘girl.'” Their other kiddos are:

Gwenevere Marie (Gwen)
Avalene Ruth (Avie)
Gideon Elias

I love their style!! Some of the names one or both of them like that they can’t use include:

Midas (unusable because of the company)
Ulysses (related to the Greek for “to hate”)
Georgiana nicked Georgie/Ana
Alexandria nicked Alex
Walter nicked Walt

Emily writes,

“My husband, Ben, especially likes unique and unpopular names. He will often ask me how popular a name is when I suggest one! I know Gideon is getting more popular, but we both really liked it and can have a hard time agreeing! 😉 … I love to read and it heavily influences my favorite names. Like Georgiana! We also love names with legends and stories, like with Gwenevere and Gideon and Midas. Avalene was named after seeing a picture of my great-great aunt who was a nun, her name was Sister Avallina. After beginning RCIA we found out that our Avalene was born on the feast day of Teresa of Avila! I have a special devotion to the Blessed Mother and to St Joan of Arc. I also love Pope Francis, as he became Pope right before we joined the Church. Gwen would have been Charles/Charlie if a boy. But we don’t re-use the other gender name if that makes sense! Almost like it’s still the child’s name in a way … We also keep the syllables of the names in mind & all three kids have three syllable first names. Because our last name is so short & common, we like the long, unique first name to balance it out.”

(Isn’t Avalene’s name story awesome??) Current frontrunners for a girl are:

Winifred nicked Winnie or Freddie
Eleanor nicked Nora or Nori
Edith
Gabriella

And for a boy:

Augustine nicked Auggie

I had a lot of fun with this dilemma — working with Ben’s love of “unique” and “unpopular” names was challenging but so interesting!

First off, some thoughts about their current ideas: As you all know, I rely heavily on the Baby Name Wizard book for inspiration — for each entry it provides lists of boy and girl names that are similar to the entry in style/feel/popularity — and Winifred is spot on, having connections to both Ulysses and Gwenevere — nice job Mom and Dad! Unfortunately, Ben is right to be concerned about the popularity of Eleanor and Edith — I see Eleanor used a lot, and Edith is starting to be as well. They’re both great names! But not so unique or unpopular anymore. Every once in a while I see the spelling Elanor instead of Eleanor, and wondered if they’d like that? It’s literary — both a flower and a character in Lord of the Rings. And I wondered if Esther might interest them instead of Edith? It’s similar to both Walter and Edith in style/feel/popularity, and I really like that it’s biblical, so it can loop Gideon in as well. Gabriella is a lovely lovely name, but I do think it’s pretty popular? And Augustine — I see it allll the time among the Catholic families I know. We almost used it! I do love it, it’s a great name — but I don’t think it passes their unique/unpopular test. Ambrose, on the other hand, might, so I wonder if they’d like that? I do hear it from time to time in Catholic circles, but not a whole lot, and I feel like the rest of the world doesn’t even know it exists! I’ve often thought Sam and Bram could be good nicknames for it.

I did come up with some other suggestions that I think Emily and Ben might like. I relied heavily on their love of literature/stories and Ben’s preference for unique and/or unpopular, with a saintly or biblical spin when possible. I always shoot for three for each gender, but I ended up with five for girls and three for boys:

Girl
(1) Darcy
I’m not entirely convinced that they’ll like this, because it seems so different to me from their other names, but the reasons behind why I’m including here have me just swoony! Okay, Emily said she loves Georgiana because of Pride and Prejudice, and she has a special devotion to St. Joan of Arc … the two thoughts were swirling around in my head while I was working on this for them, and all of a sudden I sat straight up with an exhilarating thought! I scrambled to look it up and — yes! — Darcy (as in Mr. Darcy) comes from the French d’Arcy, meaning “from Arcy,” and Joan of Arc’s name in French is Jeanne d’Arc, and while I haven’t been able to verify that d’Arc and d’Arcy mean the same thing, I’m going to guess that they do, and even if they don’t, it’s totally close enough that the connection is there. Whew! When all that occurred to me I felt like dusting my hands off and saying my work here is done. Haha! It’s definitely unique and unpopular, and Emily said she loves Pope Francis right after she was talking about Joan of Arc so in my mind they’re now together: Darcy Frances. That is a great name for the daughter of Catholic, literature-loving, somewhat-contrarian-naming parents. 🙂

(2) Melisande
In general, it was hard to find much overlap in the styles of the names they’ve already chosen and the names they’re now considering. So Melisande was only in the list of names similar to Gwenevere, but it jumped right out at me as a possibility. I’ve always liked it, and I think Gwenevere, Avalene, and Melisande make a smashing group of sisters. It’s got literary roots too, as in the (admittedly pretty sad) play-turned-opera Pelleas et Melisande. It’s definitely unique/unpopular.

(3) Sidony/Sidonie
I came across this name a a few months ago while doing a consultation for another family, and its meaning just blew me away: “[Sidony] was formerly used by Roman Catholics for girls born about the date of the Feast of the Winding Sheet (i.e., of Christ), more formally alluded to as ‘the Sacred Sendon’. Sendon or Sindon (from Latin sindon … ‘fine cloth’, ‘linen’) was used in Middle English for a fine cloth, especially one used as a shroud. The Sacred Sendon is supposed to be preserved at Turin … Sidonie is not uncommon in France, and the Irish Sidney is probably really Sidony.” (pp. 268-269, Withycombe). When I saw it listed as similar in style to Avalene, I knew I had to include it!

(4) Miranda or Imogen
I was playing off their love of literature here, and trying to think of literary names that were also unique and/or unpopular — Miranda and Imogen immediately came to mind — I thought they both went well with the other kids.

(5) Mercy or Mercedes
I felt like it was easier for me to think of names that fit Gwenevere and Avalene and Winifred and Walter than it was to think of names that fit with Gideon. I love the name Gideon, and if it didn’t clash with our last name, I’d want to use it in a heartbeat. But his style seems a bit more … offbeat? than their other ideas. So when I saw Mercy listed as a girl’s name similar in style to Gideon, I thought it was definitely worth a mention. My idea here was Our Lady of Mercy, because Emily said she has a special devotion to Our Lady. I know a little girl whose middle name is Mercy for OL of Mercy, and any baby born this year and given a name with a connection to Mercy is doubly blessed because Pope Francis declared it the Year of Mercy! So great! I also thought Mercedes (“mercies,” from the Marian title Our Lady of Mercies, aka Our Lady of Ransom) might be of interest.

Boy
(1) Leopold
Leopold’s such a great name! It’s similar in style to Ulysses and Winifred, and it has the amazing nickname Leo. When I looked it up, I was impressed by its pedigree — saintly and royal, both — but what really clinched it for me was that it was “used by James Joyce for the main character, Leopold Bloom, in his novel ‘Ulysses’ (1920).” I know that a character’s name in a novel called the same name as another name one likes does not necessarily mean that one will like the first name, but it seemed too coincidental to pass up, especially with its connection to Winifred.

(2) Fitzwilliam
And again, I’m drawing inspiration from P&P. I was trying to think of names that will always be somewhat unique/unpopular, no matter the changing tide of societal taste, and I thought surnames are one of those that may tend to fit that category. Certainly some have become popular, like Taylor, but when Mr. Darcy’s first name came to mind I thought aha! I can’t imagine Fitzwilliam charging up the charts any time soon. Fitz and Will are both natural and awesome nicknames for it, and I kind of really really love Fitzwilliam Floyd. That has such a ring to it!!!

(3) Gennaro
This was listed as similar to Avalene, and I probably wouldn’t have given it any thought except that Pope Francis recently had that amazing thing happen where the blood of St. Gennaro (also known as St. Januarius) liquified in our Holy Father’s presence. I knew a Gennaro growing up, and I had the name on my list for years, even though I don’t have a drop of Italian blood. I love it, it’s a very cool name. I do realize that using it would leave Avalene out first-initial-wise, but I had to suggest it anyway.

Those are my ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for this family?

I love to do name consultations! If you’d like me to give your name dilemma a go, check out my Baby name consultant tab.

Baby name consultant: Eve? Adrienne? Or …?

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Beth and her husband are expecting their fifth baby, a girl! Unfortunately her husband has vetoed “many popular Catholic female saints that I like like Gemma, Felicity, Kateri … We both like the name Eve, but don’t want to necessarily name her after Eve in the bible, so we thought of Genevieve or Evangeline and call her Eve, but then again none of our other kids have nicknames and we aren’t big on nicknames. We have also discussed Adrienne and found out there’s an interesting catholic author who died in the 60s named Adrienne … I would love a good strong holy saint … We also don’t want a repeat first initial so no M, J, L or S. I know, so picky. ;)”

Their other kiddos are named:

Madeleine Margaret

John Paul Landon (goes by John Paul)

Leo Michael

Sarah Gianna

I found this dilemma a difficult one! Not repeating initials knocked out a lot of names I thought seemed really perfect for this family! Like Lucy, and the Juli- names, all of which showed up in the lists of names similar to the ones Beth and her husband have already chosen for their kids and are considering: Julie, Julia, Juliet, Julianne, Juliana.

Also, I just have to comment on Eve — it seems to me they’ve found *THE* name for their girl! Beth said both she and her hubs like it, and it totally fits with the other kids … I love Genevieve and Evangeline, but if they’re not big into nicknames then that doesn’t seem like a great solution … so I wondered if just moving away from Eve-in-the-Bible and more toward Mary-the-New-Eve would help? I was surprised that they don’t already have a Marian name, and was totally going to suggest one, but then there’s Eve! There’s also the mysterious St. Eve of Dreux who appears in some good books, like Our Sunday Visitor’s Encyclopedia of Saints, but doesn’t have much information available.

But of course I can always come up with more suggestions. 🙂 I always shoot for three ideas:

(1) Isabel
I love that Isabel is a form of Beth’s name (whether she’s the full Elizabeth or Beth alone, Isabel’s related!), which is such a nice connection between Mom and daughter. Since Beth wanted a “good strong holy saint,” any of the Sts. Elizabeth could be a patron, but I also discovered St. Isabel of France who, according to The Catholic Baby Name Book, “was a daughter of King Louis VIII of France and Blanche of Castile. She received several offers of marriage but refused them all because she had consecrated herself to God. She devoted herself to serving the sick and poor. She also founded the Franciscan Monastery of the Humility of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Longchamps in Paris. She lived there but never became a nun.” I don’t know of too many saints who were celibate singles (as opposed to priests or religious, or children saints), so St. Isabel is distinctive in that regard, and a good example of God calling each of us to our own path.

(2) Claire or Clare or Chiara
I always look through the Baby Name Wizard book when trying to come up with ideas for families — each entry has other names listed that are similar in style/feel/popularity — and when I looked up the other kids’ first names and the names Beth is considering, Claire showed up a lot as being similar. At first I was going to suggest Clara instead, thinking two syllables was a better fit with their one-syllable last name, but then I realized Clara rhymes with Sarah. So I went back to Claire, which is different enough from Sarah in my opinion that it works fine, and I don’t mind Claire with their last name (nor do I mind Eve with it, or even Beth for that matter). If Beth has a devotion to St. Clare, that spelling is lovely too. Or Chiara, which was St. Clare’s actual name (Italian version of Clare), and a recent Bl. Chiara Luce Badano is setting the Catholic world on fire (she was young when she died of cancer — she was born in 1971, so very current and relevant for girls today — and beatified by Pope Benedict). (Claire/Clare can be an honor name for her too.)

(3) Faith
Another name that showed up in my research was Hope, which immediately went on my list for Beth and her hubs to consider, and then I realized that Hope coupled with their last name, which begins with P, tends to reduce Hope to Ho in sound, which probably isn’t something anyone would love for their daughter. But it made me think of Faith, both because they’re similar, but also because I knew sisters growing up named Sarah and Faith. I have no other reason I like it for this family other than that it just *feels* like it would fit! I also know a little Faith currently, and I just love it on her — it’s sweet and so meaningful.

Those are my ideas for Beth’s baby girl! What do you all think? what other suggestions do you have for this family?

Eleanor=Helen after all?

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I have long been familiar with the idea that Eleanor is actually not related to Helen, despite the fact that Elena and Ellen actually are Helen variants and Eleanor seems like yet another of those, no? Behind the Name, which I take to be the best and most trustworthy online source of name meanings and etymology, says this about Eleanor:

“From the Old French form of the Occitan name Aliénor. It was first borne by the influential Eleanor of Aquitaine (12th century), who was the queen of Louis VII, the king of France, and later Henry II, the king of England. She was named Aenor after her mother, and was called by the Occitan phrase alia Aenor “the other AENOR” in order to distinguish her from her mother.”

I even referenced this “fact” in my article at Nameberry about how the intention behind the choosing of a name matters more than the actual meaning of the name, using as an example one of you dear readers who had named her daughter Eleanor for St. Helen and then was horrified to discover months later (after the birth and after the naming) that Eleanor is not believed to be a variant of Helen. (Add to the confusion that in the Eleanor entry at Behind the Name, Ellen is listed as the short Dutch form of Eleanor. This is different than the English usage of Ellen, which is as a variant of Helen. Oh dear.) (Hence my assertion that if the mama wanted her daughter to be named for St. Helen, and she genuinely believed Eleanor to be a form of Helen, then then baby *is* named for St. Helen.)

THEN, I was checking in with the Baby Name Wizard forums the other day, and came across this:

“So a mention in another thread of the probably spurious etymology for Eleanor as “the other Aenor” from Alia Aenor reminded me…”

Wait a minute, what?

Of course I had to find the other thread with the “mention” of the “probably spurious etymology for Eleanor” (I’m sorry but “mention” is too casual a word for this rock-my-world bit of info), and indeed found this:

“… K.M. Sheard’s Llewellyn’s Complete Book of Names (with the very long subtitle) … says (any typos mine): ‘Although Alianor is almost certainly a medieval Provencal form of Helena, there is an outside chance that its origins are actually Germanic — being possibly one and the same with Aenor. Alianor is often said to be the source of Eleanor, and the two were often used interchangably in the middle ages; the English Queen Eleanor, Duchess of Aquitaine, for istance, was known as Alienor in Aquitaine. Her mother’s name was Aenor, and folk-etymology likes to derive Alienor from a combination of L: alia “another (female)” + Aenor. This play with words may have been in the minds of her parents, but it is not the source of either Alienor or Eleanor. Both had already been in use for at least a hundred years at the time of her birth; Eleanor of Normandy (c. 1011-aft. 1071) was the aunt of William the Conqueror, while the wife of the tenth-century Aimery II de Thouars, was called Alienor. Thus the superficial “other Aenor” meaning can only really have been an influencing factor in the naming of the Duchess. Such thinking is often a factor in choosing names today and there is no reason to suppose that things were all that different a thousand years ago.'”

Color me flabbergasted. And ecstatic!!! How fabulous that there’s actually a legit and reasonable argument in favor of Eleanor being a Helen variant!!! What do you all think??

(And now I’m off to think some more about that book by K.M. Sheard referenced above, which I’ve long been intrigued by, but so put off by its title: Llewellyn’s Complete Book of Names: For Pagans, Witches, Wiccans, Druids, Heathens, Mages, Shamans & Independent Thinkers of All Sorts. Yeah. Bet you never thought you’d see those words on this blog! The commenter, whose thoughts and insights about names I always really enjoy and respect, made a point of saying, “I have been enjoying this book, for what it’s worth. I was initially a bit put off by the subtitle … but I’m glad I got it!” And a review on Amazon says, “Definitely not for Pagans only, this scrupulously researched volume covers a wide range of names, from the traditional, Old Testament Benjamin to the medieval French Goddess name Bensozie. A wealth of onomastic information.” That description just makes my mouth water … If I could actually consider myself an academic onomastician I would definitely need to have it, but as a mom of littles? I just don’t know if I could in good conscience let a book with that title in the house with all my still-forming boys. Maybe if I paper-bag-covered it? Like a school textbook? Or maybe I should look at it in the library … Have any of you read it? I’m such a sucker for good meaty name books with lots of info and commentary …)

Baby name consultant: Uebbing Baby Quattro

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Do you all know Jenny from Mama Needs Coffee? She’s a hardcore JP2 girl, which is all I need to know (soul sisters and such). Also, she posted last month looking for help naming her fourth baby, which, you know, is what I live to do, and someone kindly suggested my blog (!!!!), and I followed up with an excited Yes please! and Jenny said Sure and here we are. So exciting!!

Jenny had provided all the relevant details (I almost wrote “deets” and then decided I’m neither young nor cool enough) in her post, like …

… her other kiddos’ names:

Joseph Kolbe

John Paul Francis (born a whole year before the election of the current pope — nice job with the middle name!)

Genevieve Therese nicked Evie (or “Evie doll,” which is the sweetest)

(Aren’t they wonderful!)

… and names they’re considering for this wee beb (with her own commentary):

Francesca (“for Frances of Rome, Francis of Assisi, and dear Papa Francesco“)

Rose (“for Rose of Lima, my Confirmation saint. And because her godfather is a native Peruvian from Lima, so how can we not?“)

Zelie (“Dave will never let me get away with this one but I’ve loved it for years and now she’s gone and is getting herself canonized the same year our baby is due. COME ON. And yes, I’m aware there is going to be a Catholic ghetto baby boom of little Z’s running around as a result. But I still love.”)

Elizabeth (“my sister’s name, and my best friend’s. I’m not in love with any particular St. Elizabeth, but I could cultivate a devotion to the Son of God’s Aunt, I suppose.”)

Grace (“A little popular, but it’s just such a sweet name. And it looks pretty next to Genevieve.”)

Luke (“meh. I’m fading on this one. But I’ve loved the name since I first saw Star Wars at age 12, and what child doesn’t want that kind of honor associated with his moniker? Plus, the Gospel of St. Luke is my fav.”)

Benedict (“we love our retired Papa“)

Reid (“family name on my side, Dave hates it, probably not a real contender“)

Anthony (“we love St. Anthony of Padua, our boys have an inexplicable devotion to him all their own, but I just don’t love the name. Daddy is a bigger fan than me. I’d consider Antonio because Italy, but then I’d punch myself for giving some poor kid the name Antonio Uebbing for life.”)

… and her due date:

Early August

… and her gut instinct:

“I think the girl’s names are a much more realistic list of actual contenders at this point, which means we’re probably definitely having a boy.”

(Hehe!)

And then we had a nice little email back and forth, in which she also said:

“I’m leaning more toward Francesca Rose after reading everyone’s comments, but still totally stumped for a boy. (and it’s probably a boy, all I want is green chile and salsa verde doritos and hot sauce on everything and I’m gaining like a freight train. ha.) … I’d name another kid after [Pope St. John Paul II] if I could get away with it – Karol maybe? Ha.”

So this is what I have to say about all this:

Okay, first off, a couple thoughts about her current ideas: Jenny said she’s leaning toward Francesca Rose for a girl after reading everyone’s comments. It’s beautiful! And so meaningful, with the Frances of Rome/Francis of Assisi/Pope Francis connection and the St. Rose of Lima—Jenny’s-Confirmation-saint-and-baby’s-godfather-being-from-Lima connection. And her love of Italian! (She loves Italy.) Francesca Rose is just great. But since she said she’s “leaning toward” it rather than fully embracing it says there’s an opening for new thoughts … first, I wondered if the Italian Rosa would pique her interest as a first name? Or maybe Rosana/Rosanna?

I was also very intrigued by Jenny’s love of Zelie and Elizabeth, as my first thought was — Zelie as a nickname for Elizabeth! And I was totally patting myself on the back for coming up with the best most unique idea ever … and then I read in the comments on her post our own dear reader Mandi at 3:59 on 4/11: “Maybe a more formal name with Zelie as the nickname” and Kate at 10:34 on 4/12 suggesting Zelie as a nick for Elizabeth. So I’m not as unique as I thought BUT it’s also great support for a great idea! What do you all think?? Is it too weird?? I just love this idea and it totally works! Ellie is a nick for Elizabeth; Z is in Elizabeth; shuffle up the letters … And this way Jenny honors her sister and her best friend and Zelie Martin all with one name; she gives her husband a longer name he can use or nick as he likes, and Jenny can have as her nick a name he otherwise wouldn’t go for. Seems like a win-win to me!!

As far as patrons, there are so many great Sts. Elizabeth, but I’m just crazy recently for Servant of God Elisabeth Leseur. What a woman!!! Since Elisabeth was French, Elizabeth could be in her honor as the English variation of her name. Or maybe stick with the spelling Elisabeth? Especially with having French Genevieve already? Elisabeth loses the obvious Zelie connection, but there are so many other great Eliz/sabeth nicks. Tess and Liddy are two of my favorites, and I have a sister Elizabeth who goes by Betsey. Another traditional Eliz/sabeth nickname is Lily, which is my second Eliz/sabeth thought for Jenny (after Elizabeth/Zelie) — Genevieve and Eliz/sabeth nicknamed Evie and Lily? Such sweet sister names! I love that Lily is Marian too. Whew that’s a lot packed into one name. 🙂

Another thought about Zelie — if not for a first name, I’d make a strong argument for a middle! Either Zelie or Azelie because, like Jenny said, COME ON, it’s her canonization year!!!

Finally, Grace — it is so sweet, yes popular, yes pretty next to Genevieve. It’s Marian and virtuous and Catholicky Catholic. It is quite a bit shorter than Genevieve, which maybe Jenny and her hubs like? My aesthetic sense tends to prefer a longer name especially for a girl, since their one girl has a longer name, but my aesthetic sense matters very little here of course. If Jenny was concerned about this too though, she could easily do something like Mary Grace, even if she only ever calls her Grace or Gracie. Sisters Genevieve and Mary Grace called Evie and Grace or Evie and Gracie are lovely together and a bit more balanced length-wise.

As for the boy ideas … Luke is hard to beat! The Gospel and the Skywalker are of course amazing reference points (reasons why it’s one of my faves too!), and it’s such a good match as a brother to Joseph and John Paul. Benedict I love for Papa Benny, like the Uebbings do. I want to give that man all the love I possibly can! I’ve found for myself and for others who consider Benedict that it’s not so easy to pair a middle name with it, as middle initials F, M, and J are really out unless you’re willing to saddle your boy with dirty initials. (So unfortunate!) That’s one of the reasons I love Reid on Jenny’s list — it screams “middle name” to me, as it’s a family name that she loves and her hubs doesn’t. The middle is the perfect spot for such a name! And there’s nothing wrong with initials B.R. Benedict Reid is very handsome! Benedict is like a forty ton Catholic wrecking ball, and Reid prevents the building from being blown to bits. (Does that make sense?)

Finally, Anthony. Jenny’s the second mama I’ve done a consultation for recently whose husband and kids love St. Anthony but mom’s not feeling it! I would totally put it in the middle, and if it’s in the middle, I would totally switch it to Antonio per Jenny’s preference.

Alrighty! The Uebbings have great taste and some great ideas here, but I can always come up with new ones. 😉 I have four for girls (I usually shoot for three but the last one snuck in there at the last minute), and I actually came up with six for boys, which I thought seemed appropriate since she said they’re having a hard time with boy names.

Girls
(1) Caterina or Catherine

As you all know, when I do a consultation, I often rely heavily on the Baby Name Wizard and its amazing feature where, for each entry, it lists boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity as the entry. It’s usually the first place I start when looking for ideas, and one name that showed up often for names the Uebbings have used and ones on their list of possibilities as well is Catherine/Katherine. I’m loving Catherine-with-a-C for them, after St. Catherine of Siena; it’s long, like Genevieve; and it’s got great nickname options (Cate/Kate, obviously!! 🙂 And Cat is sweet too). But I’m also loving Caterina, which was Catherine of Siena’s actual name, and Jenny loves Italian everything right?? Caterina is gorgeous. Genevieve and Catherine or Genevieve and Caterina? Lovely!

(2) Chiara or Claire/Clare/Clara

Okay, so I made a case for Genevieve needing a long-named sister, and now I’m suggesting Chiara or Claire/Clare/Clara. These names are just too good to pass by! Chiara especially, as it’s Italian, and what St. Clare of Assisi’s actual name was, and Bl. Chiara Badano Luce is ah-MAAAZing, a great great patron for today’s little girls. And even though it looks short, it’s actually three syllables like Genevieve, so … looks can be deceiving and all. I think it’s a great possibility. But if they like the idea of a Clare name but not Chiara, I also love Claire, Clare, and Clara (or Claira, as was used by one of our reader mamas recently).

(3) Karolina, Karoline, Caroline, Charlotte

Jenny said, “I’d name another kid after him if I could get away with it – Karol maybe? Ha.” I’m saying, nothing funny about that! Do it!!! I personally don’t recommend Karol for a boy, not for a first name — in the middle is fine (I know a little Peter Karol and a little Joseph Karol) — but what about for a girl? I’ve seen Karoline and Karolina storming up the Catholic name charts (I know one little Karolina, said like the state), but I also know an adult Karolina who’s from Poland (she says karo-LEEN-ah), and Caroline-with-a-C is totally legit as a JP2 honor name, since Karol is Charles and the Carol names are feminine variants of Charles. Charlotte is nice because it’s French, like Genevieve, but (though not necessarily “but”) it’s the new Baby Princess and loses a good deal of the visual and audio connection to Karol.

(4) Bernadette

Bernadette is inspired of course by the French Genevieve, but also by Jenny’s thought of Elizabeth, because I know someone who was going to name her daughter Bernadette and call her Betsy! How great is that?!

Boys
(1) Charles

My very first boy suggestion goes to our Great John Paul — if Jenny wants to honor him again, and especially if she doesn’t want to it be really over-the-top obvious (since she already has a John Paul), Charles is the name for her! I love Charles. It’s so handsome and distinguished, and Charlie is a great, solid, boyish-yet-manly nickname. If they don’t love it as a first name, it’s a great middle, especially for Benedict — the initials B.C. are fine and Benedict Charles is amazing! And two papas in one! (St. Charles Borromeo is also pretty great.)

(2) Leo

Leo is an amazing name! It’s handsome and classic, it’s papal (Pope St. Leo the Great!), and I know of at least one (very Irish) family who loves it but won’t use it because it comes across as “too Italian” for them.* Um, do you understand “too Italian”? I’m sure you’re either (1) no such thing! Or (2) awesome, bring it!

(3) Dominic

Dominic has that same heavy-hitting feel as John Paul and Benedict — there’s no denying that a little Dominic’s a Catholic boy! It’s also, like perhaps Leo, one of those names that can come across as very Italian. St. Dominic is one of my personal faves (I’m a life-professed lay Dominican).

(4) Gregory

I love what the Baby Name Wizard has to say about Gregory: “Popes, saints, and Gregory Peck! Can a name get any more distinguished?” I love that! Not only that, but Gregory is a Pope St. the Great, like John Paul and Leo. Love it! I suggested this for Grace Patton, with the nickname suggestions Rory and Gus (especially if the full name was something like Gregory Louis or Gregory Stephen — all the G’s and S’s) … I’m not feeling Rory for Jenny, but Gus I love.

(5) Samuel

Samuel is biblical and handsome, and Sam is one of the most amazing nicknames imo. It’s also a name that showed up in my research as similar in style/feel/popularity to some of the Uebbings’ other favorites.

(6) Gennaro

This was a last-minute add-on after I did the spotlight of the name Gennaro and totally thought of Jenny. My only hesitation with it — and I guess it’s kind of a big one — is that it’s got the same soft-g/j initial sound like the other Uebbing kids. They probably don’t want to feel locked into that going forward. (But if they liked that theme, I could totally come up with a bunch of good names for future babies that start with soft G or J!!! :))

And those are all my thoughts for Uebbing Baby Quattro! What do you all think? Is there anything else you would suggest for them? Thanks to Jenny for letting me weigh in!

*Lest any Irish fams now think Leo is “too Italian” for them, please know that my family is super Irish and also super into Leo — there are several going back generations.

I love to do name consultations! If you’d like me to give your name dilemma a go, check out my Baby name consultant tab.