Year: 2015

Humbled and thrilled and blessed beyond measure

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You’re all amazing!! Grace Patton is one lucky lady to have so many wonderful readers who are willing to click over to another blog to leave their thoughts and comments about naming a new little baby, and that new little baby is so lucky to already be so loved and anticipated. You’ve all made my whole week, and Grace’s too I hope.

Some quick little housekeeping-type things:

  • I love every single email I’ve gotten asking for thoughts or suggestions for babies on the way! My answer is always — yes yes yes! I can’t tell you how much joy I get out of sitting down with my name books and my handwritten spreadsheets in order to tackle a name challenge — only a name lover could understand.
  • Though I always try to email back with my ideas within a week, I’m a wee bit backed up with all your wonderful requests, which only means that it might take me up to a month to get back to you. But get back to you I will! With a “report” exactly like the consultations I post here on the blog (in fact, those posts are the responses I’d already emailed to the family, revised/edited just a little to make them appropriate for here).
  • However, I only post consultations on Monday, so my Mondays are all filled up now until almost the middle of August. So great right?!!! You’ll love reading them all, as every single family who has emailed me has just the most amazing, beautiful taste in names. However — I always love for the families to get feedback from readers as well, since, despite my best efforts, it’s more likely than not that I won’t exactly hit the mark, and you all provide such great and thoughtful suggestions. But having Mondays booked up until mid-August means some of you may not be able to have your consultation posted before your due date. Which may not be a problem at all for some of you — maybe you’d rather it not be public! And that’s perfectly fine, there’s no requirement of public posting. When I email you back with my ideas/suggestions, that’s when I’ll ask you (1) if it’s okay if I post it, (2) what privacy controls you’d like, if any (like only an initial for your last name, that kind of thing), and (3) what date I’ve assigned to you for the public post if you’d like it.
  • With each of the emails, be assured I am taking into account the order in which the emails have been received as well as the due dates. In general, first come first served, but if there’s a very-soon due date — and I have gotten a couple — those will get bumped up as much as I think is fair and reasonable.
  • Please don’t let any of this stop any of you from emailing me! I’d much rather have a lot than none. And I can certainly work with any name emergency any of you might have. (Again, something only a name lover could understand.)

Finally, amidst all the Patton excitement is that I had a second article up at Nameberry on Monday! Check it out: Good-Intention Baby Naming. I’m still blown away that they’ve allowed me the opportunity to have a little of my name writing posted (all thanks to Abby at Appellation Mountain!). I’ve also added a new tab up above called “Nameberry articles,” with both my articles listed and linked to. I could just die typing that right now. 🙂

So basically, the moral of the entire story is: God is good. So so good. This blog has blessed me in more ways than you know, and I hope you’ve all felt blessed by it too. ❤

Baby name consultant: Camp Patton’s newest camper

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I’m beyond excited to have the great privilege of offering name suggestions to Grace Patton of the mom/fashion/style/lifestyle/humor blog Camp Patton!

There were a bunch of mama blogs that I read when my older kids were little, and then I took a break from blogs for a while, and then when I dipped my toe back in Grace’s blog was the first new one I started reading and I haven’t stopped. She’s a hilarious writer, and so so cool that I usually feel (1) old, (2) frumpy, and (3) bland when I’m reading her posts and flipping through her photos (which the younguns are calling “grams” I think? At least, that’s what Grace calls them) … but then she refers to herself as a “house mouse” and is blessedly free of the mother-this-way-or-you’re-not-a-good-mom bologna and says she loves shoes and chatting about baby names and that it’s important to her that she and her husband “stay in the saint family of names but I’ll be very honest and admit that I’ve liked a name and then Googled to make sure there is a saint by that name” and I think “soul sisters” and reconsider my aversion to painting my fingernails with the kind of super dark colors she rocks.

Anyway, Grace and her husband Simon have four born babies already, with these amazing names:

Julia Grace

Sebastian Xavier nicknamed Bash

Theodore Augustine nicknamed Theo

Phoebe Annika

Gender-surprise Number Five is due in June, and if you’d asked me before Phoebe was born what Grace and Simon’s style was I’d say Brideshead Revisited without a doubt and start making lists of names like Eleanor and Cora and Charles. Then Miss Phoebe was born and it’s very rare that I’m completely caught off guard by a couple’s name choice, especially if they have more than one other child (two or more gives a really good idea of name style I think, especially when they’re mixed gender), but I was totally blown away by the name they chose, both first and middle. In a good way of course! I loved it the second I read it.

But it really threw a wrench into my name ideas for the Pattons, because I’d been so sure I’d pegged them, and recalibrating my mindset is never an easy task. But recalibrate I did, for an embarrassing number of weeks (I do so enjoy a good name challenge, not joking even a little bit), relying heavily on my trusty Baby Name Wizard book (you remember — for each entry it lists other boys and girls names similar in style/feel/popularity), and came up with what I think are some good ideas. At least, if my children had the names of the Patton children, I’d be pretty happy using any of these for #5. As always, I shoot for three suggestions for each gender:

Girls

(1) Nickname: Lola

It may seem strange to start with a nickname idea, but hear me out: Grace has a style that pervades her whole blog+Instagram, from her fashion sense (for her and her kids) to her music to her interior design to her photographic eye to her funny turns of phrase, and it always strikes me as trendy — but not even close to being so in a bad way — more like, on point, like her finger’s on the pulse. Like how gifts from my similarly cool sibs are often the exact coolest thing that I didn’t even realize was the big new thing or that I looked at from afar and considered too cool for me. Lola strikes me as that kind of name. It feels kind of feisty but sophisticated, and though so far Grace and Simon don’t seem to love nicknameable girls names, they’re really into cool nicknames for their boys (I mean, Bash and Theo? So cool), so Lola kind of bridges what they’ve done already for their boys and girls. And Lola’s a traditional nickname for Dolores, which is Marian, which is always a great Catholic thing to do in naming.

What formal name would I suggest for Lola, you ask? Not Dolores, don’t worry! I have a few ideas, kind of quirky in that they’re not traditionally used as formal names for Lola, but they all strike me as hitting a right note somewhere in the Patton naming scheme. Basically, I tried for names/name combos that had L’s and long O’s so that Lola could be understandable as a nickname. Something like:

  • Violet Louisa (or vice versa)
  • Caroline Lucia (or vice versa)
  • Lourdes (do note that Madonna’s daughter is Lourdes nicked Lola, a surprisingly beautiful choice compared to other [life] choices she’s made)

Or maybe a Mary- double, like … Mary Aloysius. (Kidding!) (Sort of …) Or Mary Olivia, Mary Ophelia, Maria Lauren, even Marie Lorelei (if Lorelei had a better story, it would have been one of my top choices for the nickname Lola for the Pattons … as it is, doubling up with Mary makes nearly every name okay) … they could even do hyphens like the fancy French (probably Marie or Maria would work best?): Marie-Olivia or Marie-Olive, Maria-Ophelia, Maria- or Marie-Lauren, Marie-Lorelei.

If the Pattons like Lola, I know they’ll come up with an amazing formal name for it. Even if they hate Lola, I think Violet, Caroline, Louisa, Lucia, Lourdes, and Mary+[something amazing] are all pretty fab all on their own and fit well with their other kids’ name.

(Just for fun: Lulu also struck me as a fun nickname for them … like fashion designer Lulu Guinness [who was actually born Lucinda, also a possibility] … and I know of a friend-of-a-friend’s recently born baby named Lulu … really cute as a nick for Louisa or Lucia. Also, I love Lucy as a nickname for Louisa, so there’s that too.)

(2) Elisabeth

Elisabeth is long like Sebastian and Theodore, but classic and Biblical like Julia and Phoebe. The Z spelling is fine, and the one I’d likely use if I were to name a daughter this, but I’m loving the S spelling for the Pattons. (I’ve also been reading Elisabeth Leseur’s diary, what a wife she was.) It’s lovely just as it is, but you know I’m a big nicknamer and, again, thinking of Bash and Theo, I love the idea of Tess as a nickname for Elisabeth for them. Of course there are loads of other Eliz/sabeth nicknames that are awesome: Liddy, Libby, Bets(e)y, and Ellie are all favorites of mine.

Another name I almost had as one of my final suggestions for the Pattons is Esme, and I love the idea of making it a nickname for, say, Elisabeth Maria? It totally works!

(3) Felicity or Stella

I had a hard time with girls names for the Pattons, and I found coming up with a third suggestion was so hard I couldn’t decide between Felicity and Stella. I really like them both as sister names to Julia, Sebastian, Theodore, and Phoebe. I even really like Felicity following Phoebe — both starting with an F sound, but having different first initials makes it totally different to me. Felicity’s an amazing saint and it’s one of those names that just has a lot of Catholic cachet. And Stella — you all know how I feel about Stella. So Marian, so classy. I think I’ve been pushing it on nearly everyone who I’ve offered suggestions to. But yet again, I feel like it works here so well. Julia, Sebastian, Theodore, Phoebe, and Stella. Some parents prefer all their kids to have different first initials, which I do understand, and it certainly makes it easier to initial what’s whose (but harder too in a big family to find a whole lotta names that have no first-initial overlap), but like how Phoebe and Felicity both have their own first initial (even while sharing a sound), Sebastian and Stella seem so different to me because of the S- and the St-. That little T makes a difference to me, like S and St are totally different letters. (It’s a little weird here inside my namey head.)

(I also just can’t not leave here some of the names that I thought felt really close to being perfect but ended up deleting them for one reason or another: Penelope, Imogen(e), Genevieve, Iris or Ivy, Lydia, Corinne, and Liv.)

Boys

(1) Maximilian nicknamed Miles

I had a much easier time coming up with three boy names than I did with girl names. Sebastian and Theodore say to me: long, sophisticated, gentlemanly, and the very first name that I thought of was Maximilian. I love Maximilian (as is evidenced by the pseudonym I chose for my boy #5); St. Maximilian Kolbe is one of my very very favorites. I have my boy’s pseudonym nickname listed as Mac, which is an attempt at paralleling his actual nickname in real life, and was previously my favorite nickname for Maximilian, but then I read somewhat recently that someone was considering Maximilian with the nickname Miles and I thought I was going to die of name happiness. I just love an interesting nickname, and Miles is so perfect in my opinion! (If it’s helpful to any of the rest of you, that person considering Miles as a nick for Maximilian was also considering Milo, which I also adore … but not as a brother for Theo.) For the brother of Bash and Theo, I think Miles is awesome. For the brother of Sebastian and Theodore, I think Maximilian is awesome. And not that I’m suggesting middle names (okay I guess I did for Lola) (and for Elisabeth), but I would love a short middle for this long name and right now I’m loving Maximilian James. So handsome.

(2) Francis nicknamed Finn

Yes, I know, me and the nicknames. But the Pattons do nicknames for their boys! Really cool ones! And Francis nicked Finn is one I considered for my own boys, and I felt oh so cool when I thought of it. I’m just not a huge fan of the full Francis for everyday wear or the traditional Frank or Frankie (though my husband kind of loves Frankie, so Pattons, if you prefer Frankie, you’re in good [and normal] company). Francis is, of course, getting lots of Catholic attention because of il Papa, and it strikes me as also fitting right in with that upper-crusty Brideshead feel.

(3) Gregory nicknamed Rory or Gus

This is another one I considered for my boys. I mean, Gregory. As the BNW book puts it, “Popes, saints, and Gregory Peck! Can a name get any more distinguished?” Right? I totally one thousand percent agree. But then the BNW goes on to say, “Except you know he’ll go by Greg, which may conjure up Greg Brady’s bell bottoms instead.” Well we certainly don’t want that (unless such pants are the newest fashion, and if anyone would know, Grace would), and I really really think Rory can work as a nickname for Gregory. I love Rory anyway, and if the Pattons like it but not Gregory, I can also offer Robert nicked Rory. It’s got a formal Brit feel to me right now because of Downton Abbey, which totally works with the other kids’ names, and St. Robert Bellarmine was pretty cool, so that’s covered too. My personal preference would be to pair a name like Robert with a kicky middle, and my first thoughts here were Robert Benedict, Robert Kolbe, or Robert Bosco (Grace mentioned that she once considered Bosco for a first name for a boy).

And Gus? My personal thought is that any name that starts with a G could have the nickname Gus. Oh my, do I love Gus. An S- middle name could help make more sense of it, like Gregory Stephen or Gregory Solanus or Gregory Simon (great way to name after Dad!).

Well! Those are my thoughts on names for Camper #5! What do you all think? Have I hit the target or sailed into the trees beyond? Please leave suggestions — I know I would love to see your thoughts, and i’m sure Grace and Simon would too!

(Apologies if I used the word “cool” too many times in this post.)

See you Monday!

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I won’t be posting any more until Monday morning, and will only be checking for comments and emails intermittently over the next three days. But get ready — I have some great name consultations lined up for the next three Mondays (including a super-cool celebrity-blogger mama this coming Monday!) and some other fun topics to post about, which I’ve scribbled very diligently and professionally on the zillion pink post-its that are all over my desk. I can’t wait!

I hope all of you have a very holy Triduum and a very happy Easter!

Did you know Martin was papal? And a papal mystery solved …

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I’ve looked through the list of popes a handful of times, but I never once noticed Pope Martin! There have been at least five of them! (I only saw references to I and V so there might have been more …)*

Pope St. Martin I seems to be the most famous — he “suffered exile and humiliation for his defense of orthodoxy in a dispute over the relationship between Christ’s human and divine natures” — and his feast day is April 13. I can’t remember now how I stumbled upon this info today, but I like it. (Incidentally, he was named successor to Pope Theodore I — also a name I didn’t remember as being papal!) (Oh I remember how I came across it — he was pope during the First Lateran Council, when he defined the three-pronged dogma of Mary’s virginity — “before, during, and after Jesus’ birth”) (“during” of course referring to the miraculous nature of his birth as “light passes through glass without harming the glass” and Mary remained “intact,” which we talked more about here).

I’ve always liked the name Martin (St. Martin de Porres is a favorite of mine), but knowing that it’s papal makes it extra sparkly to me!

*ETA: Okay I looked up a listing of the popes and found “A complete list of every single pope in the last 2000 years, in chronological order. Links to a biographical essay on each” on New Advent. I did a quick search for “Martin,” to see how many there are, and found … three: Martin I, Martin IV, and Martin V. What happened to II and III? Strangely, when I googled “Pope Martin II,” I discovered that Pope Marinus I was also known as Pope Martin II, and Pope Marinus II was also known as Pope Martin III. Not to fear — Encyclopedia Britannica explains:

“Martin (II),  nonexistent pope. In the 13th century the papal chancery misread the names of the two popes Marinus as Martin, and as a result of this error Simon de Brie in 1281 assumed the name of Pope Martin IV instead of Martin II. The enumeration has not been corrected, and thus there exist no Martin II and Martin III.”

And now we all know a little more Church history. 😉

I could do lots of posts on interesting papal names, and I will! In the meantime — which are your favorites?

Two sides to the same coin?

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I’ve noticed a couple names that seem to be either/or names — meaning, if you use one for one child, it seems the other is really not usable for another. I don’t mean like Oliver and Olivia; I mean names that *are* different, but *just* too close. Like:

Theodore and Thaddeus

Evangeline and Genevieve (and Vivian/Vivienne)

Magdalene and Margaret

Theodore and Thaddeus both start with Th-, both have a d in the middle, and can both be nicknamed Ted/Teddy. Evangeline and Genevieve both have lots of v and n and soft g sounds happening, and both can be nicknamed Evie. Vivian/Vivienne strikes me as belonging to that group too, but Evangeline and Genevieve really seem two sides to the same coin to me. Magdalene and Margaret have the M and the g and can both be nicknamed Maggie.

But even as I think they’re too close to each other to be used for different-age siblings within a family, I could see them working quite nicely as twin names — a nice connection without being too matchy:

Theodore could be Theo and Thaddeus could be Taddy

Evangeline could be Evie and Genevieve could be Genny

Magdalene could be Lena or Maggie and Margaret could be Maggie or Greta

One hitch with this twin idea is that these names seem to represent slight but significant differences in taste. For example, it seems to me that people either prefer Theodore or Thaddeus — they don’t like them equally. Another pairing that makes this even more obvious to me is Sophia/Sophie and Sylvia/Sylvie — it seems to me that a person would prefer either the Sophi- names or the Sylvi- names, and whoever would choose the Sylvi- names likely wouldn’t be at all inclined to choose a Sophi- name, and vice versa.

Does this make sense? Do you get what my thought process is here or is it crazy? Can you think of other names like this?

Pearl is Marian!

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Remember when I posted about whether or not the name Pearl is Marian? I said, “I couldn’t find any title/appellation referring to Our Lady that included “pearl” anywhere (if any of you can prove me wrong, I’d be beyond delighted!).”

I’ve been proven wrong! And I’m as beyond delighted as I could possibly be! A reader noted in a recent email to me, “I think pearls have been associated with the Virgin Mary — they’re used in art work of the Madonna to symbolize her purity” (thanks Laura!), so I looked it up and lo — she’s right!

“Pearls, Unicorns, and Lilies: Symbols of Feminine Purity in the Renaissance” discussed this explicitly, with lots of good sources:

“The pearl was imbued with many of its implications in the context of paintings of the Madonna. Through representations of the Virgin Mary pearls came to be associated with faith and chastity. The pearls used to adorn the Virgin were not necessarily the pearls one would see in everyday life. These were larger, perfectly round, and flawlessly white with a beautiful luster, while normal pearls may have irregular shapes and lack the Virgin pearls’ snow-white sheen. The perfection of the pearls served to mirror the Christian perfection of the Virgin Mary.[4]

“Mary’s virginity is one of her most frequently discussed attributes. Her purity was highly contested, and supposedly confirmed by Pope Pius IX in a declaration of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception in 1854. Even Mary’s own conception was highly debated, in regards to whether she was immaculately conceived by Saint Anne and Saint Joachim.[5] In short, Mary’s virginity and purity are her main attributes, and the items used to adorn her serve to further this message.”

Do you know what this means? If Pearl can be considered a Marian name, then Margaret can as well, since Margaret comes from margarita, the Latin word for pearl! That same post quoted above connects Mary and Margaret as well:

“In addition to the Virgin Mary, one saint in particular became associated with pearls. Saint Margaret—whose name is markedly similar to the Latin word for pearl,margarita—was known for her purity and chastity, as well as for being the saint invoked most frequently during childbirth … It is not a coincidence that the chaste saint is named for a pearl … Jacobus de Voragine described Saint Margaret as being “named after a highly refined white stone known as margarita, small and filled with virtues. Thus the blessed Margaret was white due to virginity”.[9]“

I mean, I suppose it seems somewhat of a stretch to suggest Pearl and Margaret could be considered Marian names, but I don’t know … if the intention is there — the intention to name a little girl after Mary and focusing on her purity as represented by pearls, which is also translated as Margaret — it doesn’t really seem that much different from naming a little girl after Mary and focusing on her purity as represented by the name Virginia, or Lily, or Rose.

What do you all think? Do you agree that Pearl and Margaret/Marguerite/Margarita/Mairead can be considered Marian, in light of this info about pearls?

Baby name consultant: Nicknames for Carmela

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A reader, whose baby girl is named Carmela, wrote asking for help coming up with good nickname options. She didn’t care for Ella or Carmen, and was stumped as to what other options there could be. I thought I could come up with some good possibilities, and this is what I ended up with:

My first thought was Carmie. I actually know one, and her given name is Carmela.

Another thought is Cara (said like “car” … or I guess you could change the pronunciation to “care” for the nickname if you wanted), which is nice because I believe it’s Italian for “dear/beloved.”

Or Caro (a traditional nickname for Caroline).

Or maybe Melly a la Melly (Melanie) Wilkes in Gone With the Wind, or just Mela (like Ella but not).

Or:

Cammie

Callie

Carly

Carrie/Cari

The middle initial could also help — if Carmela’s middle initial is S, maybe Cassie? If a T, maybe Cat? If a D, maybe Caddy?

What do you all think? Do you know anyone named Carmela, and if so does she go by a nickname? Do you have any other ideas besides the ones I listed here?

Spotlight: Xavier

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I started this post back in September, but was a bit overwhelmed by the depths of my emotion while writing it that I kept putting off finishing it, and putting it off and putting it off …

But I’m feeling energetic today, and I’ve got the Journey channel playing on Pandora, and I’m giving my older five haircuts, which is always a task that I sort of dread (even though I’m always happy at the outcome, and oh my are they looking shaggy right now), so I’m happy to have an interesting something to do in between shearings (they go right in the tub after, so I have a few minutes between each while I’m just letting them soak. So this post is an all-morning endeavor).

So: Xavier. Awesome awesome name. There is no cooler first initial than X, first of all, and St. Francis Xavier is just an amazing patron saint (side note: do you know the CCC saint movies? My boys love the Francis Xavier one — there’s fighting and swords and samurais and it just cannot get any better for a boy). It’s a bit trendy right now, but who cares when it’s got such deep Catholicky Catholic roots?! Also: trendy saint name=evangelization! Woo!

Xavier’s got great nicknames too — X, Xave, Xavey. There’s a little Xavier in my life who started out going mostly by Xavey but has recently declared that he prefers Xave. (He’s five.)

I know you’re wondering, so what’s the big deal? What’s with the “depths of emotion” that I mentioned in the beginning? Why on earth did I put off finishing this post for six long months?

One word: PRONUNCIATION.

Ohmyword, the conversations about the “proper” or “correct” or “only right” pronunciation of Xavier hit my very last name nerve.

This is the deal, this is *the only* thing anyone needs to know about the proper pronunciation of Xavier: There are more than one. Period the end.

Please don’t anyone feel offended if you believe there is only one right way to say it — I’m very sorry if I’m coming across too strong. I used to feel as you did, before I read (and read and read and read) America’s opinions about the pronunciation of Xavier.

For you linguist-types (which I’d like to include myself in, but I think a real linguist would laugh at me) I can give what I think is a pretty decent academic argument in favor of my position that both the ex-ZAY-vyer and ZAY-vyer pronunciations are valid.

Okay, to start: Yes, in American English, the basic rule is:

1. If the /X/ is between a vowel and consonant sound then it is usually pronounced as /KS/

2. If the /X/ is between two vowel sounds then it is usually pronounced as /GZ/

Of course, there is always an exception to every pronunciation rule in English.  If the letter X is at the beginning of a word, then it is sometimes pronounced Z.

Do note that “usually” and “sometimes” are used throughout that quote, and not once does it say “always” or “never”; this tells more about the exceptions to the “rule.”

Then there’s this:

“Xylophone is from the Greek xylon, which is … pronounced with an initial [ks]. Many words borrowed from Greek via French developed a [gz] pronunciation along the way, which was reduced to [z] word-initially when adopted into English.”

and

“English, like some other languages, systematically reduces certain consonant clusters; but it has a conservative spelling system (which incidentally often reminds us where a word comes from).

The clusters we reduce are mostly in borrowings from other languages: particularly initial clusters /ks/ (‘x’), /pt/, /pn/ which are generally from Greek, but also for example /hr/ (and in fact /h/ anywhere but initial) as in “Tahrir square”.

This reduction happens in some native words as well: initial /kn/ as in ‘knave’ is pronounced /n/ in modern English, though the related word ‘Knabe’ in German still has the /k/ pronounced; and words like ‘night’, old English ‘niht’ (with the /h/ pronounced), cf German ‘Nacht’.”

Which I quite like, both because I’ve always wondered how it was that Xavier-pronounced-ex escaped the basic American English rule that x- words are pronounced with a z, and because it points out the “ks” idea, which I think is the key.

Here’s my hypothesis: What people variously call the ex-ZAY-vyer or eggs-AY-vyer or ig-ZAY-vyer pronunciation is really the evolution of an original ks-AY-vyer pronunciation. It’s pointed out in the Greek example above, and I was reading the other day a book called Polish First Names by Sophie Hodorowicz Knab and Ksawery is the Polish version of Xavier. There’s that Ks-!

But so many seem SO RELUCTANT to admit that both pronunciations are valid! And it doesn’t seem academic — it seems personal, empirical, subjective. Despite the fact that any name source that provides pronunciations always provides both (behindthename, babynamewizard, and nameberry are three examples [although Nameberry’s entry also includes this annoying and incorrect tidbit: “Note that though that the initial ‘x’ does have a distinct appeal, the correct pronunciation has it beginning with a ‘z’ sound”), people still insist that only one or the other is the *only* correct one (usually the ZAY-vyer pronunciation), usually based on their own experiences.

In my experience, ex-ZAY-vyer was the only pronunciation I knew, and I therefore thought it was the only one and certainly the correct one. As I learned more, I suspected it might be that the ex-ZAY-vyer pronunciation was more common in Catholic circles; even the Baby Name Wizard book had in its first edition that ex-ZAY-vyer was the “Catholic and X-men” pronunciation.

But then as I learned more, I discovered that that wasn’t watertight either — and even the BNW book, in its most recent edition, changed it to ex-ZAY-vyer being only the X-men pronunciation.

This discussion thread and this one too on the BNW forums suggested variations in pronunciation might be regional (and some also pointed to the idea of ex- being a Catholic pronunciation), but there were some commenters whose location and Catholicism seemed to dispute that. In fact, some of them pointed to the (Catholic) Xavier Universities as the benchmark for how to say the name … with a z:

“the press in towns around the American Xavier Universities (one in Ohio, one in Louisiana) enjoy making fun of non-locals who do the “egg” pronunciation, even writing that when they quote the people, like during NCAA basketball tournaments, a time when these Catholic schools are more likely to be in the national spotlight”

and

“I spent 25 years in New Orleans, and I dare say the universities know how to pronounce their names“

But then this, in the same thread, seemed much more balanced:

“I’ve heard the Xavier University argument before, but I don’t find it convincing as far as what the English pronunciation of Xavier is *supposed* to be — all it says to me is the two universities chose ZAY-vyer as their pronunciation so yes, anyone who calls them ex-ZAY-vyer University would be incorrect, because that’s not their chosen pronunciation. I know other Catholic entities named after the saint that pronounce it ex-ZAY-vyer.”

I recently heard someone refer to the ex- pronunciation as an Americization (?) (by which she meant “incorrect”) of the proper pronunciation. A commenter on one of the threads linked to above said this:

“This issue is SOLELY an anglophone problem for this Basque-origin name. Other languages, such as French and Spanish, have clear, single ways of pronouncing the name. And none of them try and and say “X,” whether that means “eks,” “eeks,” or “equis.” It’s solely from the British English and their anglicization of a foreign name, not part of the name’s origins. As I always tell people, you don’t pronounce “eks” to start xylophone, Xerxes, Xena, Xanadu, or Xanax, either.”

which sounds very fancy and educated, but she’s incorrect in that (1) I’ve already shown that both Greek and Polish say “ks” when beginning at least some x- words/names, which is what I argue the ex- pronunciation is really doing, and (2) while the examples she offers of various x- words and X- names are ones that are only said with a z sound, she didn’t include yet another exception to the “rule,” which bolsters my argument: Xenia.

Are any of you familiar with the name Xenia? It’s Greek, and also used in Poland and Russia, and while the ZEE-nyah pronunciation is used, it seems the ks-AYN-yah pronunciation is more prevalent. It’s even spelled Ksenia sometimes. (Also, how fun to know that several Sts. Xenia are revered in the Orthodox Church!) The BNW book includes it as an entry, so it must be used *enough* in the U.S., and yet there was no discussion of the “proper” pronunciation beginning with z, or that the ks pronunciation is wrong.

So what does this all boil down to? Both pronunciations are fine and acceptable. ex-ZAY-vyer is not incorrect, though I might be more inclined to call it the k-SAY-vyer pronunciation. I will absolutely support your right to pronounce your child’s name any way you wish (since, when it comes to proper names, no one has the market on the “correct” pronunciation, so say the Sisters that taught my mom) — but I will also argue tooth-and-nail with you if you try to tell me that the ex/ks pronunciation is wrong.

There. Glad to have that sorted.

I did try to come up with a list of names that are pronounced in such a way that don’t follow American English pronunciation “rules” and thought of Thomas (the Th pronounced T) and Camille (the i pronounced ee) and Padraig (no one bats an eye at saying PAW-drig instead of PAD-rig) and Siobhan (not easy for a lot of people to remember how to say, but I don’t hear anyone saying shi-VAUN is wrong) and Nathalie (the French spelling but as far as I know no one fusses and insists on saying the th as th rather than T like Thomas), also Rene(e) and Desiree …

One last thought: I saw someone online say once that the disagreement over the pronunciation of Xavier was enough to make her not want to even consider using it for her son. PLEASE do not let that be your takeaway from this post. It’s an AMAZING name with an amazing patron  saint. All that’s required when people wonder about the pronunciation or say your version is wrong is to state simply which pronunciation you use and that both are considered acceptable, just as you would if you named your daughter Lucia or Lara or Corinne. If they tell you you’re wrong, send them this link.

What do you think of all this? Have I lost any readers over my strong opinion that both pronunciations of Xavier are valid? Can you think of other proper names, used here in America, whose pronunciations don’t follow the “rules” and yet they’re accepted as fine?

Reading round-up

sanctanomina Reading Round-up , ,

I’ve read a few interesting things recently, some which I’ve posted on Facebook and others I haven’t:

If you want to see a picture of Pope Francis going to Confession, check out this post (the content of the post is great too, but that picture!) (it’s the second one — scroll down) (the first pic is amazing too — he’s in the confessional ready to hear confessions): A “Jubilee of Mercy” – On 2nd Anniversary, Pope Calls Extraordinary Holy Year of “God’s Forgiveness”

Simcha posted on FB: “Confirmation saints! Did you or your kid pick someone unusual? If so, why? The more details, the better” and got a whoooole bunch of responses. I haven’t even read through them all yet, but I love the conversation!

I’m not as familiar with Latin as I’d like to be — I took two semesters of it in college, because I wanted to, which is how I was able to name this blog 🙂 — and I’ve been to too few Latin Masses to have picked up much more than just what I know from some common prayers and hymns, like Salve Regina. So I liked this, and thought some of you might find it helpful too: Latins Words or Phrases Every Catholic Should Know.

In case you missed it ( 😉 ), there’s this: How to Name a Large Family (by me!)

I mentioned before that I couldn’t wait to read all Arwen‘s posts on naming, and I did love the first one I read, on the naming of her first two: Insufferable Parental Name-Gazing (edited to add: Please don’t mis-read this as me saying I didn’t like the rest of her naming posts! What I meant was, I’ve only read that one so far, and I liked it!)

Somehow — and now I can’t remember how — I found Arwen’s mom’s blog post where she explains how she and her husband chose all their kids’ names. With a child named Arwen, you know the rest are going to be interesting, and wow — they are: Coming Clean

That’s all I got for now! Happy Saturday!