Nicknames

Spotlight on: Elizabeth

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Grace asked for an Elizabeth spotlight a while ago, which is so great, because when I think of doing spotlights, I tend to think of names that are a little unusual or offbeat or have issues (like, what nickname? how does this name come across? does this name have any saintly connection?), and since I don’t consider Elizabeth to fall in any of those categories, I probably wouldn’t have thought to spotlight it.

But Elizabeth — I mean, come on. Is there any more impeccable name than Elizabeth? I love so many things about it, like:

It’s the name of Our Lady’s beloved cousin and mother of John the Baptist, known as St. Elizabeth of the Visitation (I love that!). Her Mystery of the Rosary is a tremendous pro-life witness and the first announcement to those other than Jesus’ parents that the Messiah had come.

It’s the name of a sainted queen (St. Elizabeth of Hungary) and an Irish martyr (Bl. Elizabeth Kearney) and two wives of men who lived Godless lives and converted and became priests after their wives’ deaths (SOG Elisabeth Leseur and Bl. Elisabetta Canori Mora) and a whole bunch of other holy women. One of them, Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity, is set to be canonized this year, having had her second miracle recently approved.

It has about a thousand variations — not only Elizabeth, Elisabeth, and Elisabetta as mentioned above, but also:

elizabeth_screen_shot
http://behindthename.com/name/elizabeth

So many cool options! Two really unusual ones (to me) that jumped out from this image are Zabel, which I’d actually suggested for this mom, and Elixabete, which Mary (skimac) had recently mentioned (I’ll leave it to her to tell us how to pronounce it!). In that same comment she also shared the diminutive Sabeth, which someone she knows gave to his daughter as a nod to Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity, as her childhood nickname was Sabeth. I’ve also seen Zbeth in real life! Then there’s Elsa, Isabella, Lisbet, Bethan … all legit variants of Elizabeth.

And the nicknames!! Abby recently did an awesome post on unexpected nicknames for Elizabeth, which included one of my favorites, Tess (as I say, if Betty and Tetty are both traditional nicknames for Elizabeth (they are), and Bess is also, then Tess should certainly be!). I’d also add Eily (said EYE-lee, like the Irish variant Eilis [EYE-lish or AY-lish]) and we’ve discussed the possibility of Zelie as an Elizabeth nickname as well (it totally works! Two saints in one!). I also did a tiny post about Elizabeth nicknames here. But if you want your girl to go by her full name, Elizabeth is feminine and sophisticated, smart and distinguished. An Elizabeth can be a Supreme Court Judge, or an artist, or an engineer, or an opera singer, or an Olympic athlete.

Which is your favorite Elizabeth variant? How about nicknames? Do you know anyone named Elizabeth who goes by one of the nicknames not mentioned or linked to here?

Nicknames: Judith, Elodie, Alister/Alistair (unusual)

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A mama emailed recently with a slightly different dilemma, on which I’d really like to get your collective input:

“Our firstborn’s name is Lafayette and he also goes by the nickname Fayte (rhymes with Nate). I like his combination of a longer classic name (though not common) and a spunky nickname … We lucked out with our son’s name since both the longer form and the nickname were old family names, so we didn’t come up with them ourselves. I’m trying to figure out if we can get a similar combo for this baby without it being too forced.

There are three names (one boy, two girl) that I’m a little stumped about:

Judith is the first girl name. It’s a family name, we like the religious meaning, and the sound of the full name. We aren’t thrilled with Judy since that seems to date the name more and has the confusion issue with the family member we’d be honoring. I’ve seen Jude as the only other recommendation, and while I like it a little better, I’m not thrilled with the unisex-leaning-male aspect of the name.

Elodie is the other girl name. I think Ella/Ellie is a cute nickname, but a little more common than I’d like since it seems there are many other in vogue names that lend to those nicknames. I probably like Ellie better of the two. Seems like there should be other options though!

Alister (or Alistair) is the boy name. We haven’t landed for sure on the spelling we’d choose, so could potentially be flexible if it lended itself to a good nickname. Al or Aly are the only suggestions I’ve seen, and aren’t wild about either.”

I looooooove thinking up unusual nicknames!! And I love Lafayette nicked Fayte, and how awesome that they’re both family names?!

First up: Judith. I did a spotlight post a while back on Judith and in it I said:

“Behind the Name gives several variants of Judith (Jutta, Judyta, et al.), but you know it’s the nicknames I get most excited by! Judy is super cute, but maybe still feels a little dated? It has its own history as a given name, peaking a few years later than Judith but dropping out of sight quicker, so it might have a little more of a date-stamped feel, but it’s not the only option: Jody/Jodie are possibilities, according to behindthename, which makes me also think of Jo and Josie (especially, maybe, with an S middle name? Judith Siena, for example, could easily be Josie) … or maybe pair it with an N middle name for Junie or Juno? Maybe Judith Noelle? Even Julie for something like Judith Louisa? Am I scaring you yet? Haha!”

Looking back on this again, I do love the idea of something like Judith Siena nicked Josie, or Judith Noelle/Naomi/Noemi nicked Junie or Juno. Or Jennie? Judith Marie could be Jamie? I often find that, with first names that are hard to nickname, looking at a firstname+middlename mashup-type nickname works really well.

Elodie is a gorgeous name, I just love it, and I agree that Ella and Ellie are cute nicknames, but yes, fairly common. Possible alternatives:

  • Lola—originally a nickname for Dolores! But the Lo- of Elodie totally makes it do-able.
  • Nell—if I understand correctly, Nell (and Nancy and Ned) came from the old English way of saying, “Mine El” for Eleanor/Ellen/Elizabeth (or “Mine Anne” for Anne, or “Mine Ed” for Edward), so I think Nell could then work for any El- name. And how sweet that its origin is “Mine El”—so endearing!
  • Edie—just drop the “lo” in the middle of Elodie!
  • Dicey—apparently an old nickname for Edith (Edie made me think of Edith)
  • Liddy—the way I say Elodie sounds pretty close to “EL-liddy”
  • Didi—from the last syllable
  • Dolly—if it can work for Dorothy, it can work for Elodie, which actually has “dol” within it (though backwards)
  • Dodie—another old nickname for Dolores; I could totally see something like Dodie arising organically from Elodie
  • Edda—like Etta
  • In smushing-with-the-middle-name fashion, what about something like:
    — Evie for Elodie Victoria
    — Elsie for Elodie Siena, Elodie Seraphine, Elodie
    — Dot(ty) for Elodie Therese
    — Dixie for Elodie Beatrix or Elodie Xavier (Mother Frances Xavier Cabrini could be patron instead of St. Francis Xavier, if parents like Xavier but didn’t want to be too gender bending. Of course Mother Cabrini chose the name after St. FX, but still)

Alister/Alistair I had the hardest time with! I did a bunch of research looking for ideas and came up with a few:

  • Ace—my first idea and the only suggestion I came up with on my own! I think it could work just for Alister/Alistair, as they have the A and the S sound, but something like Alistair Clement would make a lot of sense, with the A+C
  • Alec—I saw several places that Alec is often used as a nickname for Alistair, since it’s a form of Alexander. As with Ace, a C- middle name could make more sense of it to others
  • Aston/Astin—I wanted to suggest Astor, but the comments I saw online made me think it would skew more feminine for most people (like the girl name Aster, which also sounds similar to the girl name Astrid), but then I thought maybe Aston/Astin? Like the Aston Martin or actor Sean Astin
  • Ari, Arlo, Alfie—I really liked Ari when I saw it online—a mom considering Alistair for her son was considering Ari as a nickname, as well as Arlo and Alfie
  • Abe—someone else online was considering Alistair with a B middle name and planning on Abe as the nickname. I love that! Alistair Benedict/Benjamin, Alistair Beau, Alistair Brendan?
  • Art—Alistair has all the right letters for Art!
  • Ladd(y)—with a switch to the Alasdair spelling, Ladd or Laddy could work. The Pioneer Woman (Ree Drummond, chef on Food Network)’s husband’s name is Ladd, and Laddy feels really Scottish!
  • Ty—because Alistair has the prominent T in it, I think something like Ty could work
  • Tad, Taz—these might make more sense with the right middle name … Alistair Daniel? Alistair Xavier? Alistair Zachary?
  • Iss—crazy, right? But I saw Iss online as a nickname someone had heard used for Alistair! (I also saw Eck used for Alexander, and Ish for Aloysius!)

And those are all my ideas! How about the rest of you? What unusual nicknames ideas could you offer for Judith, Elodie, and Alister/Alistair?

Baby name consultant: First baby, a boy–John+[something] or Jude?

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Okay everyone, buckle up — this is a daddy of a consultation! In more ways than one! Yes, it’s really long (twenty-three ideas for this couple! What!) (You’ll see why!), and also, it’s a papa that commissioned me to do this consultation!

Cameron is one of my most loyal and encouraging readers, and I’m delighted today to post this consultation for he and his wife Chelsey, who are expecting their first baby — a boy!

C&C have fully agreed on Jude Alden as an amazing combo that they both love, that has great meaning for them as well — a great, saintly first name and a nod to Chelsey’s dad in the middle.

But what would a consultation be without a dilemma? For this couple, it’s that Cameron’s full name is John Cameron, and his dad’s first name is John as well. Cameron loves the idea of giving his firstborn son the first name John, like he and his dad, and have him go by his middle name. BUT he and Chelsey love Jude Alden. And they can’t figure out a John ___ name they like as much or better.

Cameron writes,

“Since my dad and I are both first borns and both have “John” as our first name, I always thought it’d be really cool to turn that into a tradition should God bless me with a boy first … Jude Alden just hit us in the face one day when we were out and about and we just stopped and knew right away that we loved that name. It is a power hitter name regards to our faith; being one of the apostles, and honors Chelsey’s father for his middle name! 🙂

[I feel like] Jude Alden is the perfect name… for a younger brother. Chelsey would gladly name it for the first born … However, after having that discussion with you a while back regarding Jude in the spotlight, I have heavily considered giving up my “made up tradition of John + something” to replace it with Jude Alden as a first born, thinking that maybe we’ll never get the chance to use the only name we’ve both come up with and loved.

Obviously Jude Alden is the forerunner. It could very possibly happen that when we see our boy, we just know it’s a Jude and that’s that. We are coming to you to help us with our “John Dilemma”.

John is the beloved apostle and I (Cameron) have a dear devotion to him and his connection with Our Lady. I love John for being a very strong solid name, and the thought of tying in another name to that is so exciting. But Jude Alden is stellar… who knows.”

(Cameron calls it a “made up tradition” because he wasn’t actually named John [something] *because* his dad was, it just worked out that way.)

Except for Jude Alden, Cameron and Chelsey have pretty different taste in names. For Cameron,

“I personally am not a big fan of super “secular” sounding names like “Hunter, Derek, Brad, Jordan, etc…” or names along those lines for the MAIN NAME that we would call our child. We have tossed around ideas including a secular name as a middle name (or first, doesn’t matter what order, really) for example, but not the name we could call him. That includes several, obviously, so I wouldn’t write all those out. … I love good solid Catholic names. You know that. Raphael, Gabriel, Paul, John, Jude, Titus, Daniel. Chelsey and I have been thinking about not being TOO obsessive (mainly me) about having a super well known Catholic name, because we love the thoughts of our children being new saints, thus creating a new name for other families using in reverence and honor….if that makes sense.”

(I totally cracked up at this: “Chelsey and I have been thinking about not being TOO obsessive (mainly me) about having a super well known Catholic name”!! 😀 )

Chelsey, on the other hand,

“likes uniqueness… Chelsey likes names that are a little bit more “rare” but still have a good sound to it, if that makes sense … [she doesn’t] like names that are very common, and [she’s] also not a fan of names that can appear boring, e.g. Paul, Bob, Tom, Sam, etc.. Some names [she does] like are killed by the shortened versions e.g. Elijah- Eli.”

Names Cameron likes but Chelsey doesn’t:

Paul (“I’d totally go for John Paul for obvious reasons, JPII!!!“)
Ezekiel
Isaac
Raphael
Samuel
August (“booooo” [John August is Cameron’s favorite combo])
Elijah
Dominic

Name Chelsey likes but Cameron doesn’t:

Ezra

Name they both kind of like:

Ignatius (but Cameron worries that it’s “SUCH a heavy hitter, that it almost seems to be too much“)

Names that are no-go’s:

Garett
Graham

And finally, for reference, some girls’ names they’ve discussed and like:

Lillian
Grace/Gracie
Willow
Haven
Noelle

Alrighty, first off, the idea of John+[something] is just one of those things that can’t be ignored. You know? On the one hand, I want to say that Jude Alden, being the name Cameron and Chelsey both agree on and love, is the perfect option for their little boy. On the other hand, naming traditions can be so meaningful, and given that John+something is Cameron’s name and his dad’s name, as firstborns, I don’t think it’s the kind of thing that they can shelve for now and maybe consider if they ever have a second boy. I think this baby boy here is their one shot at John+something. So that’s kind of a lot of pressure! It might seem like they’re down to “family tradition” (which happens to nicely coincide with Cameron’s particular devotion to St. John the Evangelist and Our Lady, beautiful) vs. “favorite name, and the one we can happily agree on.”

I posted a while ago on whether parents should reserve names for later use at the expense of using them now or vice versa (in that example it was “Felix now at the expense of Felicity later?” but it works perfectly for John+[something] vs. Jude Alden) and two things that came up in the comments seemed really helpful: (1) name this baby as if he/she were your last baby, and (2) in light of that, which name would you be sadder not to ever get to use? If this little boy is the only little boy that C&C are ever blessed with, would they be sadder to not use John as a first name in the tradition of Cameron and his dad, or the handsome and agreed-upon combo Jude Alden? (Cameron actually commented on that post — this is a really hard dilemma for them, which has been hanging over them for a while!) (Also, if you want to get a glimpse of these sweetest expectant parents, click on his username!)

So my main goals (and my hopes for you all in the comments!) is either to come up with a John+ name that will make them both really happy and not feel like they’re settling, or help them realize Jude Alden is *the* answer, and either way not set them up for name regret later. Cameron started emailing me about this dilemma several months ago, and we’ve had quite a long conversation about it — I’ve suggested several (where “several”=”23”) ideas to them, and since none of them have hit quite the right note, I hope you all can come up with something that’s just right (or maybe Jude Alden is meant to be this little boy’s name?). My ideas are:

(1) John Alden, called Jude
This is probably my top option. It has all three of the elements they both want: John, Alden, and Jude. I know it’s an offbeat idea — you all know I totally specialize in offbeat nickname ideas! So I get it if it’s just too crazy for C&C. It’s the kind of choice that they’d really have to be 100% with and just own it — telling people firmly and consistently that yes, his given name is John Alden, and yes, he’s called Jude exclusively.

(2) John Jude Alden, called Jude
The two-middle name option isn’t for everyone, but it’s a tactic often employed when there are a bunch of names that parents can’t choose between.

(3) John Thaddeus, called Jude
This is probably the one that’s closest to my own personal taste. Thaddeus is after St. Jude Thaddeus, and I think his full name is familiar enough to people that if you say his name is John Thaddeus but you’re calling him Jude, people will probably raise eyebrows because it’s an unorthodox way of getting to Jude, but I don’t think they’d be like, “Where the heck do you get Jude from John Thaddeus??” Another nice thing is that with the “J” of John and the “ude” that’s contained within Thaddeus, Jude is almost like a mashup nickname of the first+middle names. Finally, Thaddeus is a style match for Ignatius and Raphael — it’s got loads of Catholic cachet; it’s also super biblical like Chelsey’s Ezra and several of the names Cameron likes. If they were to go with John Thaddeus nicked Jude, they’d have two of their three important elements — John and Jude. It’ll be important to consider whether or not Chelsey’s dad will be upset with not being included in their first son’s name.

(4) John Ignatius
I think it’s really telling that C&C are both considering Ignatius — besides Jude Alden, it’s the only name they listed that they’re both okay with! John Ignatius is an amazing combo. I know that Cameron said he doesn’t like the “main name” their son will be called (sometimes called a “call name” in the naming world) to sound secular, which I totally get. But I suspect that Chelsey might not mind that so much, and perhaps a good compromise between their tastes would be a heavy hitting super duper Catholicky Catholic given name, like John Ignatius, with a friendlier, more accessible nickname/call name, which I think usually sound secular. I don’t think Gus translates as Catholic, for example, even though St. Augustine is such a big deal, and Gus is a natural nickname for it. Does that make sense? Anyway, with that in mind, John Ignatius with a great nickname might be just the thing for this baby. I’ve seen Iggy, Nate, and Nash as nicknames for Ignatius — I don’t think Iggy’s their taste; Nate’s a pretty safe choice — familiar, masculine; and I’m going to guess that Cameron hates Nash and that Chelsey thinks “Huh. Nash is kinda cute.” But I’d let it sit for a while! I wrote a while ago about when Mom and Dad have different tastes and how to deal with that – heavy hitting given names with cooler/friendlier nicknames were one way to go (I blogged about it here: https://sanctanomina.net/2015/01/14/baby-name-consultant-he-likesshe-likes/, and reworked it into a column for CatholicMom here: http://catholicmom.com/2015/04/15/patrick-vs-polycarp/). An easy nickname also helps to deal with Cameron’s concern that Ignatius is “SUCH a heavy hitter, that it almost seems to be too much.”

(5) John Ezra, called Ezra
Most of the time, if I knew Dad really felt strongly about a certain first name, I would unequivocally think the fairest thing would be for Mom to get full rights to the middle name. This situation is a little trickier because their son would actually go by his middle name and C&C will both have to deal with calling him by that name every day for his whole life, so it’s not as easy as picking a mostly hidden middle name. But their tastes are actually not that far off from each other! Cameron’s picks of Ezekiel, Isaac, and Elijah are all style matches for Chelsey’s Ezra, so I feel like it shouldn’t be that much of a thing to scooch closer together, you know? Of course, I also know that’s not really how naming works — you both like what you like and that’s just the way it is. But I’d consider John Ezra. Something Cameron wants, something Chelsey wants. Ezra’s a really cool name I think, and while it doesn’t have the Catholic cachet the names on Cameron’s list have, I think the full “John Ezra” steers it more in that direction. For what it’s worth, I also think John Ezra and Jude Alden are amazing brother names! Similar lengths, and Ezra and Jude sound really cute together.

(6) John Caleb
Caleb is a great name in my opinion, and a great style match for the Old Testament names they both like. It can also take the awesome (imo) nickname Cal, if they wanted to do a nickname. So cute!! But then Chelsey said some names that she might otherwise like are “killed by the shortened versions e.g. Elijah-Eli” – I don’t feel like I have a good handle on what nicknames she would consider dealbreakers (I loved the examples of Paul, Bob, Tom, Sam, etc. – perfect! But I’m less sure about the more uncommon nicknames, like Cal, for example. I was also surprised to see she doesn’t like Eli, as I would probably have thought she would have liked it). I don’t think Caleb needs a nickname, and I don’t think most people would think to shorten it to a nickname. I also like that John Caleb would share initials with Dad – another nice connection.

(7) John Roman
Roman is another one that seems like it might be just perfect. It can be heavy duty Catholicky Catholic, with its ties to (in my mind) the Pope, the Vatican, Roman Catholicism, etc. But I think it can also appeal to those who prefer names that are a little less heavy – there are some celebs that have used the name Roman, for example, like Cate Blanchett, Molly Ringwald, Debra Messing, and Rodney Peete. It’s a style match for Raphael, Dominic, and Noelle, and the similar sounding Ronan is a style match for Haven, all of which I thought was pretty awesome. John Roman is really handsome. (Or John Ronan?)

(8) John Gabriel
Gabriel is a style match for Isaac, Raphael, Samuel, and Elijah, as well as being a great Catholic name – St. Gabriel the Archangel brings to mind Our Lady and the Annunciation, which are beautiful Marian tie-ins for a boy. Gabe is one of the best nicknames imo, and I’ve often thought Gil could totally work too. John Gabriel rocks.

(9) John Kolbe or John Xavier
I wonder what they’d both think of Kolbe? I’m feeling like it might overlap really nicely with both their styles. It can sound trendy, like Colby and Coby and Cody, but it’s St. Maximilian Kolbe all the way. Loads of Catholic families I know have been choosing it for their sons; it’s a great option, and very recognizably Catholic. Kole could also work as a pretty cool nickname. I love John Kolbe.

I’m including Xavier in the same category because it’s a saint’s last name that’s being used as a first name. It’s gotten popular recently, but I still think it comes across as exclusively Catholic. I really like John Xavier.

(10) John Francis
Okay, hear me out – Francis is St. Francis of Assisi, it’s Pope Francis, it’s awesome. But most people I’ve talked about it with don’t care for Francis as a call name, and I’m guessing Frank/Frankie isn’t really C&C’s style. So I wonder what they’d think of the nickname I keep pushing on people for Francis: Finn? One of the things about Catholicky Catholic names is that you might be saddling a child with a name that’s too heavy for them when they’re little, so having nicknames that are easy and friendly, or that fit in with their peers, can sometimes be as much a gift as the Amazing Saint Name you gave them. Does that make sense? So there are going to be a lot of little Finns this year, because of the new Star Wars movie, but he’s a great character, and a little John Francis would happily and easily fit in with his peers if he went by Finn.

(11) John Matthias
Matthias might really work for this baby as well. He’s in the New Testament – he was chosen by the Apostles to replace Judas, so I think Matthias can be considered a really Catholic name, since his selection was the result of an official meeting of the Apostles – one of the first (if not THE first) Church Councils perhaps? In a manner of thinking? It’s got that heavy biblical feel that Ezekiel, Isaac, Samuel, Elijah, Jude, and Ezra have as well, and could shorten to Matt/Matty if you like (one of the objectively coolest people I’ve ever known has a son named Matty, so you know Matty’s a good nickname! Haha!).

(12) John Bryant
In emailing with Cameron I discovered that Bryant’s an important family surname for Chelsey, and I wondered if she’d like to balance Cameron’s family first name pick with her own family middle name pick? Bryant’s a great surname to have in the family mix to have if you’d ever want to consider using it for a child, because it’s so first-namey.

(13) John Michael, John Miles, John Milo
Miles and Milo were my first ideas here—I know you all have seen me suggest them ad nauseam to others on the blog but darn it, I’m going to keep suggesting it til someone uses it! 😀 I love them because they’re Marian! The Irish name Maolmuire, which means “devotee of Mary” has been anglicized as Miles/Myles/Milo! I’ve also seen Miles and Milo offered as offbeat nickname ideas for Michael, so I thought if C&C kind of liked Miles and/or Milo but were still hesitant, maybe John Michael would work for them with the nickname Miles or Milo?

(14) John Connor
The combo John Connor reminded me of John Cardinal O’Connor, the amazing archbishop of the Archdiocese of New York who founded the Sisters of Life—a great association! Connor’s a great name.

(15) John Owen
I’m dying over brothers Owen and Jude, love! And St. Nicholas Owen has been a favorite of mine for a while—he built hiding places for priests in England and was martyred for the faith. And it’s also my newest nephew’s name. 🙂

(16) John Elliott
Elliott has strong connections to the faith—in origin it’s a diminutive of Elias, which is the Greek form of Elijah. I’ve always considered Elijah/Elias/Elliott to be Marian, because the cloud the prophet Elijah saw on the water from Mt Carmel in the book of Kings is said to have represented Our Lady. Indeed the Carmelites trace their history back to Elijah and that incident—they were venerating Our Lady long before she was born. It gives me goosebumps to think about!

(17) John Charles nicked Cal
C&C did actually let me know that they both liked the nickname Cal from my Caleb suggestion, which made me think that maybe Charles was the answer. Cal is a traditional (though somewhat uncommon) nickname for Charles, and Charles is all kinds of awesome—JP2’s birth name was Karol, which is the Polish for Charles; there’s also St. Charles Borromeo and one of my new favorites Bl. Karl of Austria and a bunch of others. This ties in well (I think) with their decision to not be “TOO obsessive about having a super well known Catholic name”—it’s got impeccable credentials but doesn’t hit you in the face with it.

(18) John Leo
Pope St. Leo the Great! It’s also on the rise popularity-wise, having cracked the top 100 or the first time since 1937 in 2014 after rising steadily since 1995, so it’s got appeal beyond the Catholic world.

(19) John Robert nicked Rory or Bo
I suspect that Chelsey’s first reaction to Robert will be “ugh”! But St. Robert Bellarmine is a great saint, so maybe Cameron will like it, and updating the nickname options from Bob(by) or Rob(by) to Rory or Bo might do the trick. Rory is a style match for some other names that are similar to Jude, like Finn. Brothers Rory and Jude would be so cute! And I’m including Bo because my brother and SIL, parents of the Owen I mentioned above, considered Bo as a nickname for their next baby, and Robert was one of the suggestions I gave them for a way to get to it.

(20) John William nicked Will or Liam, or John Liam
William is as solid as they come, and Will and Liam are great nicknames. Liam was actually a style match for Willow, which is what encouraged me to suggest it. There are a whole bunch of Sts. and Bls. William, and one is also known as Bl. Liam Tuiridh.

(21) John Damian/Damien (nicked Danny or Denny?)
Finally, Damian is a style match for Noelle, and of course I immediately thought of St. Damian (of Damian and Cosmas fame) and St. Damien de Veuster (sorry to Chelsey, I have the “uber Catholic name” bug like Cameron! It’s just how my namey mind works!) and wondered what they’d think of them? Damien’s one of those that I’ve tried to convince my hubs of, and he won’t have any of it because of the demon child in the 1970s horror movie The Omen, which I’ve never seen and neither has he, but people do seem to associate that movie with these names. Which just kills me. Although, the popularity of the name has actually increased since that movie came out! Both variants are impeccably saintly, and though neither has traditional nicknames, I’ve often thought Danny (for Damian) and Denny (for Damien) could work.

(22) John Thomas or John Timothy nicked Ty or Trey or Trip(per)
I know Chelsey said she didn’t like Tom, but I was thinking if they use John for this baby, he’ll be the third Murray boy in succession to have John as his first name. So Trey could totally work as a nickname for him, and really it doesn’t matter what his middle name is, they could still use Trey, but I thought a “T” middle name might be the most appealing. Thomas and Timothy were the two I thought might be the best, not having any particular hardcore Catholic feel even though they *are* hardcore Catholic. Then the idea of Timothy reminded me that I’ve seen Ty used as a nickname for it, and I quite liked that too: John Timothy nicked Ty.

Trip(per) is because I know another boy who’s the III and he’s always gone by Tripper, I love it. Totally sounds like an athlete’s nickname, no? (And not to get totally crazy here, but one could possibly think of Trey/Trip(per) as a nod to the Trinity. Oh man.)

(23) John [middle name meaning “beloved” or otherwise referring to St. John] nicknamed Trey, Trip(per) if desired
This is actually a brand-new suggestion for C&C, which I haven’t yet offered. Piggybacking on the previous suggestion and my assertion that C&C can call their baby Trey or Tripper no matter what his middle name is as long as his first name is John, I thought I’d suggest some names that could refer specifically to St. John the Beloved Disciple:

Amatus — means “beloved”
Erasmus, Erastus — mean “beloved”
David — likely meaning “beloved”

Cruz — means “cross,” referring to the Cross of Crucifixion and the fact that St. John the Beloved was there with Him, and that Jesus gave His mother to St. John from the Cross (though I would use the “croos” pronunciation and not the Spain-Spanish “crooth”)

John Amatus, John Erasmus, John Erastus, John David, and John Cruz are all all pretty amazing (I’m loving John Cruz! I actually love it without the Trey/Trip nicknames — Cruz is great!).

Whew! Okay! Those are all my ideas, but I’m dying to hear yours — what would you all suggest for this family torn between John+[something] and Jude Alden? Or any advice?

Name signs for those who use American Sign Language

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Our reader Amy is deaf, and was recently sharing with me how name signs are bestowed, which I thought you’d all find as interesting as I do:

“In regards to naming practices for people who use American Sign Language*:

Culturally, a name sign should only be given to you by a Deaf person (you can’t just make up your own) and they are also not always bestowed right away. Sometimes it can takes months or longer while you wait for the right one to come along. Until then, names are typically just finger spelled. Sometimes short names (2 or 3 letters) are only finger spelled and that motion becomes their sign. But for the most part name signs are given based on a characteristic unique that person. Like Callie might walk with a specific sway in her hips, so hers might be a C hand shape near her hip that rocks back and forth. Rachel might be a person that is always happy and smiling so the sign for smile is done with the handshape for the letter R instead of the regular hand shape. Gavin might be a G on his upper arm because he is strong.

The first initial is not always used. I know an Anna who had chubby cheeks as a baby so her name sign is a finger flick on her cheek. Caleb might be a claw hand shape, finger tips almost tapping his chin. My co-worker Jill’s sign name is the same as the sign for flower because it relates to her maiden name. I have a friend who didn’t “name” her son until he was almost one, and then he was “named” after an eyebrow raise he would always do. The hand shape/movement mimics it.

In my own family we use the letters MK for my son Martin Kane, as a way of including his formal first name, even though we call him Kane. Also because we already use a K hand shape for my daughter Kristy (palm facing in, rising up from her ear because she would always make high squeaky sounds and she is hearing). My name (Amy) is just finger spelled, My husband Marty’s is an M making an arch down like the sign for kung fu because he is a black sash, an instructor and it’s where we met. Sometimes just generic signs are used. A good example of this might be when reading a story book. Instead of spelling the characters names over and over again or coming up with a characteristic name sign, you could just simply shake the first letter in the air or tap it on your jaw if the character is female, or on your temple if they are male (because this is where female/male signs are made). Fun stuff huh! Although, working in a deaf school, sometimes it gets confusing when students have the same name sign or ones very similar. But then again, regular school kids have this same problem. Common top 10 names usually end up going by their first name plus their last name initial. Emily C. or Emily K.?

*some names in this post have been changed to protect privacy“

So interesting, right? I always wondered how people got their name signs! I took Sign Language classes for years before and during college, which were taught by a hearing interpreter, so she knew a lot but she wasn’t deaf (I don’t know how much “insider” cultural info she had) and I didn’t know to ask about this (we all finger spelled our names) — this is all new to me!

I also really like how the name signs are tied to a characteristic that is particular to each individual, and how it “Sometimes it can takes months or longer while you wait for the right one to come along. ” It feels really affectionate to me because it requires observation of the person — you have to really *know* him or her.

Amy also told me, which I hadn’t known, that St. Francis de Sales is the patron of the deaf — such a cool thing to know! I love him! (He’s also a patron of writers, and I’ve long asked him for intercession for my writing efforts.) I looked him up, just to see if I could find an explanation for this particular patronage, and found this amazing tidbit:

“His simple, clear explanations of Catholic doctrine, and his gentle way with everyone, brought many back to the Roman Church. He even used sign language in order to bring the message to the deaf, leading to his patronage of deaf people.”

That.is.awesome. ❤

Do any of you know anyone with a name sign, and if so, what is it/how did they get it?

Thanks to Amy for writing this up for us!!

Names for the Sorrowful Mysteries

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A few weeks ago Shelby suggested a post on names for the Mysteries of the Rosary, which I loved right away — what a great idea! So every Tuesday for the next four weeks, I’m going to post on a particular set of Mysteries, starting today with the Sorrowful Mysteries, which is so apt for Holy Week, and also for yesterday’s attacks in Brussels. Suffering Jesus, help us.

In case you need a refresher, these are the Sorrowful Mysteries (all referring to Jesus’ Passion and Death) (read more here):

The Agony in the Garden
The Scourging at the Pillar
The Crowing with Thorns
The Carrying of the Cross
The Crucifixion

And here’s how to pray the Rosary.

Shelby and Mary-Agnes both offered some ideas, and I’ve spent the last couple weeks jotting down some more as I thought of them — there are a good few!

Girls

Cruz — cruz is Spanish for “cross” and refers to the Cross of the Crucifixion; used for boys and girls

Dolores — Spanish for “sorrows,” traditionally used for Our Lady of Sorrows (María de los Dolores) and here could refer to both her and to the Sorrowful Mysteries, or to the Via Dolorosa (Way of Sorrows) — the name for the path in Jerusalem Jesus walked on his way to the Crucifixion

Gethsemane — the name of the garden where Jesus suffered His Agony; behindthename lists it as a female name

Magdalen(e/a), Maddelana, Madeleine/Madeline — Mary Magdalene was at the foot of the Cross

Maricruz — a Spanish contraction of María and Cruz

Mary — Our Lady was at the foot of the Cross

Olivia, Olive — for the Agony in the Garden of Gethsemane (an olive grove); the nickname Via for Olivia would bring in an added nod to the Via Dolorosa (see Dolores above)

Pilar — a Spanish girl’s name meaning “pillar,” which can be a nod to the Scourging at the Pillar (it’s a Marian name referring to the unrelated title María del Pilar — Our Lady of the Pillar, from a Spanish apparition)

Regina — meaning “queen” (or perhaps “royalty” would be the better sense here) because of the Crowning with Thorns

Ruby — “red,” for Jesus’ Blood poured out for us in His Passion and Death

Scarlett — same as Ruby

Veronica — she wiped Jesus’ Face during the Carrying of the Cross

 

Boys

Cruz — cruz is Spanish for “cross” and refers to the Cross of the Crucifixion; used for boys and girls

Cyrene — Simon of Cyrene helped Jesus carry His Cross

Dismas — the name traditionally given to the repentant thief crucified next to Jesus

John — John the Beloved Disciple was at the foot of the Cross with Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene

Oliver — see Olivia/Olive above

Rex, Regis — meaning “king” because of the Crowing with Thorns; see Regina above

Simon — see Cyrene above

Tristan — often considered to mean “sad” because of its similarity to Latin tristis (sad)

 

What others can you add to this list?

+ For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. +

 

 

Birth announcement: Woodrow Ignatius!

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I posted a consultation for Emily and her husband last summer, and she’s let me know her baby has arrived — a baby boy given the killer combo … Woodrow Ignatius!

Emily writes,

“Woodrow Ignatius Floyd was born on October 23, 2015.

Oddly enough we did not know St Ignatius of Loyola was also born on Oct 23, but divine providence proves itself once again. We had no middle name for him as I felt like God and the saints would point in the right direction on his birthday. I had really thought I would have him on Oct 22 (his due date was the 31), because it’s the feast of St Pope John Paul II, to whom I have a strong devotion. But even though my water broke on the 22, and it seems St Ignatius wanted him for his own. 🙂 … Woodrow was a name my husband brought up and was a front runner while we were still deciding. We will not be using a nickname, though “Row” or “W” would be what we would use.

Both my husband and I love history, as I think I said before, so we were really drawn to names with historical reference or legend, etc. “

I’m really excited because one of the names I’d suggested had been Fitzwilliam (after Mr. Darcy), and Woodrow is so similar because it’s a last name used as a first name by a famous man (one fictional, one real). I even wrote, “I was trying to think of names that will always be somewhat unique/unpopular, no matter the changing tide of societal taste, and I thought surnames are one of those that may tend to fit that category.” So I feel like I was circling the right area! And I LOVE Woodrow with Ignatius — so heavy hitting! So faithy! So perfectly fitting what Emily and her husband were looking for! The story of how Ignatius is came to be his name is so.fantastic.

Congratulations to the proud Mom and Dad and big sibs Gwenevere Marie, Avalene Ruth, and Gideon Elias, and happy birthday Baby Woodrow!!

Baby name consultant: Martin Lad #6

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I have been SO excited to showcase today’s mama and her beautiful family and wonderfully named children, and offer some ideas for her baby #7 – who’s also her sixth boy! Welcome Colleen of Martin Family Moments!

Colleen’s definitely a kindred spirit, her blog posts always make me feel like I’m chatting with my own best friends, especially the ones from college. In fact, she attended Franciscan University of Steubenville, which had been my #1 choice for a long time in high school until I decided I didn’t want to be that far from my family, especially my sisters, who were tiny when I started college. I was just musing today that if I’d gone to FUS, I would have known Colleen! She graduated a year behind me and I bet we would have been friends, not only for her personality that shines through in her writing, but also because she finds scapulars hanging out of boys’ shirts to be attractive (I thought I was the only one! My husband calls it “Catholic catnip” 😀 ). And she loves JP2. And she’s from the Northeast, so we totally would have bonded over being so far from home. And, the reason I scheduled her post for today, the fact that she loves Ireland and her Irishness (her name’s Colleen. I mean, come on) (I know she’ll love that all of my boys wore green to school today, with the cutest being my 4yo who’s wearing a shirt that says, “I drink me milk by the pint” and my almost-2yo who’s wearing a white t-shirt that has a green-tie-with-white-shamrocks printed on it 😀 ). Also, and I’m not even joking, one of my actual best friends from college—one of the ones that I think of every time I read Colleen’s posts because they’re just so familiar, just the way my friends and I are with each other—was honest-to-goodness hounding me to do a consultation for Colleen. So that settles it: Colleen would have been one of our best friends.

She’s got amazing taste in names too, which puts her right up there at the top of the list. 🙂 Check them out:

John-Paul
Andrew Pauric
Eamon Philip
Margaret Rosemary (Maggie)
Alexander Blaise (Xander)
Declan Kolbe

I mean, she totally had me at John-Paul. And one of the first boys I met when I was studying abroad in Ireland was John Paul. I also loved discovering, when reading the how&whys behind her naming, that Pauric was not actually the name of the uncle her Andrew Pauric was named after, but rather Padraig, and the Pauric spelling reveals one of the acceptable pronunciations of the name. So many Irishy things we’re learning today!

So when I was discussing with Colleen her and her hubs’ naming requirements and restrictions a few weeks ago, she said,

“I want really Irish names, but my husband likes saintly traditional names. I usually win out 🙂  we should know gender in two weeks, so you can just focus on one set of names. Current favorites are Elena Mae (husband approved) and Rowan Asher (husband unapproved)“

And then after they found out their new baby is a boy she gave me these additional difficulties,

“1) Not using our nephews or nieces names, which include – Maura, Gavin, Liam, Maeve, Rory, (Joseph) Finn, Joanna, Thomas, Lenora, Miriam, Josephine, Nadia, John, Caitlin, Brogan, PJ, Clare, Megan, Bridget, Katherine, Ryan, Grace, Lillian, Abigail, William.

2) My husband can almost always associate a name with a student he’s taught and that totally influences his opinion.  He’s been teaching for 13 years, so he has quite a list!  But there’s no way you would know any of these, so go with the flow 🙂
Our last name is Martin, so nothing like Martin or Martina.  And the initials probably shouldn’t be DAM or HAM or anything that could be embarrassing!  I love girl nicknames that are cute, ending in -ie or -y…we love the nicknames Annie, Lainey (which would be Elena’s), Ally.
Oh!  And we can’t reuse any of the names we were going to use for our past babies, which include – Brendan, Kayleigh, Emily, and Felicity.”
And then when I looked back on the naming post I linked to above and also this one, I discovered some more names that are on the no-go list:
Dean
Sean
Brian
Robert
Patrick
Jacob
As well as these names that they really like but can’t use for various reasons:
Maximilian
Benedict
Christian
Jonathan
Casey
Cory
Taylor
And names that Colleen likes:
Brennan
Kieran
Kane (Colleen’s mom’s maiden name)
Nolan
Niamh
Non-saint names — “because how are we going to ever create new saint names unless we name our kids non-saint names?“
And names that Phil likes:
Emily
Evelyn
Saints’ names
And also:
Re: the difficulties with others’ butchering of Eamon: “I think that might be the last time we use a mostly unrecognized Irish name again.”

And finally, the most recent update:

“Since we’ve found out it’s a boy, we’ve been leaning towards names with a strong “n” sound…after realizing that we have a JohN-Paul, ANdrew, EamoN, XaNder, and DeclaN.

Top contenders are Bennet(t), Evan, Rowan/Ronan.
I would still love a cute nickname for whatever name he has (like Benny for Bennett) and I have been so good at trying to keep an open mind until I read your post 🙂 “

Okay! Whew! I think I got everything in there and I’m pretty sure none of my ideas violates any of the rules but there’s certainly a chance I missed something so if Colleen reads any of my ideas and thinks, “She’s terrible at this, I *told* her such-and-such wouldn’t work!” I probably won’t be too surprise.

I do need to point out though that Colleen related a story of having decided on Casey for one of her older boys, only to have both her and her husband meet girls named Casey, which crossed the name off the boy list (she says, “I’d rather give a unisex name to a girl than a boy“), so I know she’ll want to know that Rowan is actually included in the Androgynous list in the Baby Name Wizard, and that the one I’m most familiar with (not knowing any in real life) is Brooke Shields’ daughter Rowan. So I’m definitely in the Ronan camp for Baby Martin.

Speaking of the Baby Name Wizard, I just want to remind you all, as I’m sure you already remember, that I almost always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents used and like because the BNW lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that match in terms of style/feel/popularity. It’s such a useful tool, even for only pointing me in the right direction, you know? So when I say “such-and-such is a style match for such-and-such,” you know I’m referring to my trusty BNW.

And now, without any further ado (I’m really good at “further ado” and I often have to cut myself off!), here are my ideas/suggestions:

(1) Biblical: Benjamin

John, Paul, Andrew, Philip, and Alexander are all biblical names, so methinks they might be open to considering some others. Benjamin is a style match for both Andrew and Alexander, and it’s kind of like the Benedict they don’t feel they can use (because “we already have one son named after a Pope”) and the Bennett they’re considering AND it has the “strong ‘n'” sound all their other boys have. Also the awesome nickname possibility of Ben(ny).

(2) Irish: Cormac, Cashel, Owen, Connor, Miles

Ooh I have so many ideas for this category! Cormac is the first — saintly and Irish, and with the fabulous nickname Mac.

Cashel is offbeat and unusual but I love it so much for its meaning — “The Rock of Cashel was the traditional seat of the kings of Munster for several hundred years prior to the Norman invasion” and it’s “reputed to be the site of the conversion of the King of Munster by St. Patrick in the 5th century” — and for its possible nickname of Cash. Swoon!!!

Owen has the strong N and not only is it Irish but it can have the awesome patron saint of one of my very favorites, St. Nicholas Owen. (No good nickname options though.)

Connor is totally one of those “cute boy” names, in my opinion — handsome and Irish and so cool. And it’s got the N’s! Nicknames are harder for Connor — there’s the old-school Connie, like Connie Mack, but I don’t know too many parents these days who would be okay with that.

And Miles — I have to suggest Miles!!! The old Irish name Maolmhuire (“devotee of Mary”) is anglicized as Miles or Myles. A Marian boy’s name is so to die for!! Being only one syllable (or you could make it two, depending on your dialect) it doesn’t need a nickname, but Milo’s a cute option (even though it doesn’t make it any shorter).

(3) Biblical+Irish: Daniel, Gabriel

Finally, two names really stuck out at me as being particularly Irish while still being biblical. The first is Daniel. You canNOT get more Irish than Danny Boy. Oh Danny Boy! With N’s!

Can any Irish girl listen to that song and NOT decide then and there to name her boy Danny?!

The second is Gabriel, which is certainly not as Irish as Daniel, but is used enough — actor Gabriel Byrne is a great example, as is super duper famous longtime Irish TV personality Gay Byrne (whose given name is Gabriel Mary Byrne. I just die. ❤ I wrote about the Irish Gabriels here).

And Kane is my hearty suggestion for a middle name for almost all of these — it’s a family name and it sounds ah-MAZ-ing to me with all of my ideas, even the ones that start with a K sound. Love love love.

And those are my ideas for Colleen and Phil! What do you all think? What other names would you suggest for a wee lad whose big sibs are John-Paul, Andrew, Eamon, Maggie, Xander, and Declan?

 

Baby name consultant: Eleanor’s little sister

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It’s Irish week! Woo!! No better way than to kick it off with a consultation for a mama named Maureen! 😀

Maureen and her husband Adam are expecting their second baby — their second girl! Big sister is:

Eleanor Maureen

Such a beautiful combo — elegant and sweet.

Maureen writes,

“We are expecting baby girl #2 in May, little sister to Eleanor Maureen! Eleanor was a name I have loved since grade school and think Eleanor Roosevelt and St. Helen are great women for our first daughter to look up to. Both of our parents gave their first names to their children as middle names, so Maureen was the obvious choice for a middle for the first girl and if we are ever blessed with a boy his middle name will be Adam (my husband). However, for girl #2 I think I want to give her a different middle name although my husband would be fine with another _____ Maureen.

We both would prefer a more uncommon name, but not so uncommon that people will always look at her askance when she tells them her name and we want the most traditional/common spelling for any name to minimize people spelling her name incorrectly.

The name also must be classic to fit with Eleanor (sometime goes by Ellie, but rarely). So we can’t have an Eleanor and a Mindy, for example. I’d prefer her name to not start with E. We’d also like some Marian connection in her name, either first or middle. We have predominately German and Irish heritage in our families, but aren’t limited to choosing names from those cultures.

I love the name Margaret, but we have close friends with a Margaret (Maggie) and my husband is adamant that we can’t be “name thieves”, even if we choose a different nickname or just call her Margaret. I like Isabel, Susanna, and Genevieve for their elegance, strength, femininity, and style fit with Eleanor, but my husband doesn’t like those particular names. He likes Hannah, as do I, but it doesn’t seem to have the same classic elegance that Eleanor does.

I’m not big on nicknames and will likely call her whatever her first name happens to be, so the actual name has to work for me, but if there is a nice nickname to go with the perfect name it would make the grandparents happy. Not a requirement though, as they’ll be happy with a new grandbaby!

Do you have any suggestions for us? I know we are being difficult. 🙂 “

Of course, they’re not being difficult at all! I love hearing all the rules and requirements/restrictions — it’s real-life naming, baby! 😀

Alrighty, first, I love that they used Maureen’s name for Eleanor’s middle name, lovely! And I’m interested that Adam would be okay with their second daughter having the same middle name —  it’s quite a common/traditional thing for all the girls in a Catholic family to have a form of Mary in their names, and since Maureen *is* a form of Mary, doing it again — or using a different Marian name — is quite traditional. Very nice!

I loved that Maureen characterized Eleanor as having “classic elegance” — perfect description! I also liked all of the names Maureen’s interested in: Isabel, Susanna, Genevieve — all favorites of mine, all beautiful. I agree that they fit well with Eleanor. I can see what she means about Hannah too, though I do love it. Such a sweet name.

So as you all know, I almost always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents have used and like in the Baby Name Wizard, which has the amazing feature of listing, for each entry, boy and girl names that match the entry in terms of style/feel/popularity. I then look for names that have overlap — that are listed as similar to more than one of the names they like — and go from there, looking for saintly connections, etc. Based on all that, my ideas for this Wee Lady are:

(1) Lillian or Violet
I thought of Lillian right away when I read Maureen’s email, even before doing any research, though I was delighted to see in the BNW that it’s a pretty good match for their taste. Behindthename.com says Lillian is probably originally a diminutive of Elizabeth (Lily is a traditional nickname for Elizabeth), but it can also be considered a form of Lily. Lilies are associated with Mary, so I consider Lily and its variants to be Marian. The full Lillian I think is quite a good match for Eleanor, and the nickname Lily is available to the grandparents if desired. But maybe Ellie and Lily are too similar in sound?

Violet struck me as having a similar feel to Lillian (they both have that English feel, and both flower names), and it was listed as a style match for both Eleanor and Genevieve. And it can also be considered Marian! (See the link in the Lillian paragraph for more info.) I love that Maggie Smith’s character is Violet on Downton Abbey — that’s exactly the feel I get from it. Vi is a fun nickname too.

(2) Catherine or Caroline
I was originally going to just suggest Catherine, which is a gorgeous name (and not just because it’s mine! Ha!) (though I spell mine with a K) and I would describe it has having a classic elegance — like Kate Middleton, whose given name is Catherine. I have friends who have a little Catherine, and they call her Catherine exclusively (she’s not even two yet and it totally works), but certainly Cate, Catie, etc. are possibilities for nicknames. St. Catherine of Siena is a great patron. I was thinking of Marian names that would go nicely in the middle, and I thought Catherine Mary has a really nice regal sound to it, and Mary’s kind of unexpected in the middle (as opposed to the more familiar middle Marie) which made me think of …

… Caroline, because I’d posted a birth announcement for one of the blog readers not too long ago who had named her daughter Caroline Mary, and I was so struck by the simple elegance of the combo — it made me think that Caroline would be quite nice as a sister to Eleanor as well. I’ve seen a lot of people using Caroline in honor of St. John Paul II (his birth name was Karol, the Polish version of Charles, of which Caroline is a feminine variant). Carrie’s a sweet nickname, or Caro, or Callie, or Carly.

(3) Beatrice or Beatrix
I’m guessing that if Maureen and Adam like these names, that Beatrice would be more their style, but Beatrix with that spunky X can’t be ignored, so I’m including them both. It’s not a name I usually think of, but Beatrice, like Violet, was listed as a style match for both Eleanor and Genevieve, and I as soon as I saw it I thought it would be a great idea for Eleanor’s sister. It’s got a pretty great meaning too—behindthename says, “Probably from Viatrix, a feminine form of the Late Latin name Viator which meant “voyager, traveller”. It was a common name amongst early Christians, and the spelling was altered by association with Latin beatus “blessed.”” Isn’t that cool? Bea is one of the sweetest, spunkiest nicknames too, in my opinion.

(4) Josephine
Josephine was yet another name that was a style match for both Eleanor and Genevieve! So of course I had to include it. Despite it being French, it has a really English feel to me, and it’s literary (Jo March!), and St. Joseph is such a wonderful patron. It’s got great nickname potential too: Jo, Josie, Fina, and I’ve even seen Sophie, which I thought was pretty inspired.

(5) Abigail
Abigail is a style match for both Isabel and Hannah, and I liked that one was a name Maureen likes and one was a name Adam likes, so it seems like a nice compromise. The full Abigail is quite sophisticated I think, and reminds me of Abigail Van Buren, like the Eleanor Roosevelt connection for Eleanor, and Abby is a sweet nickname.

(6) Clara
Finally, Clara. Clara is sweet and simple, but elegant because of it. It’s a style match for Eleanor, which is so fun, and St. Clare of Assisi is such a great patron, as is Bl. Chiara Luce Badano (Chiara is the Italian for Clare/Clara). The one downfall is that it doesn’t have any nickname options, but it’s a pretty small package, so I wouldn’t consider that a deal breaker (but maybe Maureen and Adam do?).

As for other Marian ideas, some of my favorites, which I think work quite well for firsts or middles, are: Maria, Rose, Rosemary or even Rosary, Grace, Mercy (nice for this Year of Mercy!), and Immaculata or Immaculee.

And those are my ideas for Eleanor’s little sister! What do you all think? What would you suggest as a good match with Big Sis and/or a good Marian name?

Baby name consultant: Baby Borobia Take 2!

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What feels like waaaay back, in November, before Thanksgiving even, I posted a name consultation for Dwija’s eighth baby with some fun ideas for both boys and girls.

Since then, she and her husband have found out their wee one is a little lady baby! And when I saw on her IG post announcing the news in January that they were still in the *THROES* of trying to agree on a girl’s name, despite the previous solid frontrunner of Helen, I asked if I could take another shot, and, gracious as always, she said have at it!, so I’ve come up with five more ideas for Baby Borobia #8.

First though, about Helen, Dwija says,

“I guess there is no really good reason that Helen isn’t the front runner for some people ( 😉 ) anymore except that I guess none of the convos we had before the ultrasound “counted.” Lol! Which is why we always find out gender- we have a terrible time agreeing on names, clearly. Tommy says he feels like Helen is a fine name but that it doesn “go” with what we have so far and it’s just not his favorite. We love the name Margaret, but we have a niece named Margaret already and another one named Maggie, so basically we would be the third of his siblings to use the name or a variation and that might be a little much, you know? We also like Carolyn after my MIL, but that breaks the no repeat first initial rule (as does Margaret!) and it is very similar in spelling and sound to Kathryn so it might be a little awkward. Genevieve is an option that has not been struck down (that is about as good as it gets at this stage!) and the kids who really wanted Gabriel for a boy are campaigning for Gabrielle or Gabriella for a girl now, but then if we have another boy in the future, we won’t be able to use it! You see the puzzling puzzle-ness? Whew! Hope all that is a teeny bit helpful maybe? Thanks so much for letting me play along again”

So my thoughts, worth only a couple of pennies as always, are:

Helen is great, still. I won’t be at all surprised if it’s the name they end up with. I know from the last consultation that Dwija and the big girls were swoony over the nickname Nellie, which seriously is so sweet. As for it not going with what they’ve done so far, it kind of cracked me up when I looked up their beloved Margaret in my trusty Baby Name Wizard book and saw its girl style matches are Catherine, Helen, Mary, Eleanor, Cecilia, and Martha. Boy matches included Charles and Paul. If you remember, they already have a Kathryn, Mary, Elizabeth (similar to Eleanor with the El-), Cecilia, [John] Charles, and Paul. So yeah, Helen fits.

On to Margaret: I can see why they feel weird about using Margaret after two of their nieces have been so named. And that darn repeated initial! But the fact that Dwija and her hubs are still talking about it tells me they reeeaalllyy love it. And clearly, as noted in the previous paragraph, it’s an insanely good fit style-wise. One solution (which doesn’t fix the repeating-initial thing, but might help with the cousins-named-a-form-of-Margaret thing) is to name her Margaret but use a different nickname than Maggie—that way when all three cousins are together, none are called the same thing. My particular favorite recently, and one which gets away from the M initial, is Daisy. I also love Daisy with Katie, Lizzie, Ceci, and Mary—I think it totally fits! Other variants and diminutives that can be used as a nickname include Greta, Rita, and Maisie (though there’s that darn M again). I also have another idea for incorporating Margaret, which I’ll discuss more below.

Regarding Carolyn, it’s a lovely name and a lovely tribute to T’s mom. It’s very similar in sound and appearance to Kathryn, but since she goes by Katie I don’t think it has to be a huge deal. The spelling could be changed to Caroline to help with spelling/appearance, but then that might move it far enough away from Carolyn that it loses its appeal. Another important consideration is that Carolyn is one of the feminine forms of Charles, which the Borobias have already used in their little John Charles (who goes by Charlie). Ma and Pa Ingalls didn’t mind being Charles and Caroline when they got married (and babies Charles and Carrie too!), but it is the kind of thing namiacs would notice (if one should be worried about such things).

Genevieve is beautiful and another favorite of mine. I have no complaints! One could argue that it’s even less like what they’ve done so far with their other kids than Helen, but it’s saintly and classic, which is their basic style. (I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—one of the very best things about Catholic naming is that there are so many names of all ethnic backgrounds and degrees of unusualness and yet they all “go together” because of the Church—just put your Catholic glasses on and you’ll see! 😀 )

Gabrielle/Gabriella now at the expense of a possible Gabriel later is a real dilemma! I addressed it in this post, and I really liked the way one of the commenters put it: “Which one would you be sadder not to use?” My sense is that Dwija and Tommy really like Gabriel, and would be pretty bummed if they had a boy in the future and couldn’t use it because they’d already used a female variant. I also don’t get the feeling they love Gabrielle/Gabriella nearly as much as Gabriel. I could totally be wrong! It’s a good conversation for them to have. (This post on name regret might also be helpful.)

Okay! So I came up with a few new ideas. First though, let me remind you of the Borobia Baby Naming Rules:

“T [hubs] does NOT like William because of William of Orange (true story. This is what I mean about all our weird rules!)

More rules include:
Must be a saint name but not a quirky one (no Scholastica or Cosmas, etc.)
Must exist somewhere in one of our families (you won’t be able to know this, but that’s okay)
Cannot start with a letter we’ve already used.
Cannot start with a B
Initials can’t make a potentially embarrassing word (MIB made it through because I don’t think her friends are going to know anything about Men in Black. Are you starting to see how crazy I am???)”

And their other kiddos’ names:

Kathryn Marisol (Katie)
Elizabeth Anne (Lizzie)
Paul Anthony
Cecilia Jean (Ceci)
Mary Isabel
Nicholas Robert (home with Jesus)
John Charles (Charlie)

And the names I suggested in my last post:

(1) Ruth, Rita, Rose/Rosa
(2) Hildi
(3) Alice
(4) Frances

I think I was a little too focused on Helen-type names in my previous suggestions, so I branched out a bit, looking for suggestions that might not be as perfect on paper but just *seem* like good ideas, and came up with:

(1) Sarah-Margaret (or others?)
I really hate when there’s a name both parents love but for whatever reason they don’t feel like they can use it—we all know how hard it can be to come to an agreement on a name! And to have other interfering factors can be so frustrating. So I love to try to come up with ideas of how that name can still work somehow. Sarah was listed in the Baby Name Wizard as a style match for Kathryn, Elizabeth, Nicholas, and John, and when I saw it—given that Margaret was heavily on my mind—I immediately remembered that actress Andie MacDowell has a daughter named Sarah Margaret who actually goes by Margaret. I love the full Sarah-Margaret (I’d probably hyphenate if it was me, but certainly not necessary), and the traditional Sarah nickname of Sadie, but Sarah Margaret called Margaret (or Maggie or other Margaret nick) takes it all one step away from the nieces Margaret and Maggie, even if only “technically.” You know?

But if they didn’t like the idea of Sarah Margaret, but did like the idea of a double first name, I also love Sarah Clare, Sarah Louise, and Sarah T(h)eresa/Sarah Tess (I know the two latter aren’t necessary to avoid repeating initials, since they haven’t use L or T yet, but how sweet are Sarah Lou and Sarah Tess?!). (Sarah’s a great name for double-naming—Harry Connick Jr. has a Sarah Kate, which I’d totally suggest if they didn’t already have Kathryn.)

(2) Lucy or Louisa (nicked Lulu)
Speaking of not having used L yet, what about Lucy? It totally fits in with sisters Katie, Lizzy, Ceci, and Mary in my opinion, and how amazing does Lucy Carolyn sound together??

Lucy, and the idea above of Sarah Louise, also made me think of Louisa. It’s so lovely and Little Women on its own, and I’ve long thought Lucy would made such a natural nickname for it, so Louisa nicked Lucy allows for two great names in one! Or Louisa nicked Lulu? I love Lulu, and it seems a lot like Helen/Nell(ie) to me.

(3) Felicity
So I wrote down all the letters of the alphabet that were still okay to use, and tried to think of names for each one (without thinking so much of the other kiddos’ names) and F was all Felicity to me—and that was before I realized today’s her feast day! Felicity’s such a pretty name and has some shared sounds with Marisol, Elizabeth, Cecilia, and Isabel, so I think there’s a pretty good chance Dwija and her hubs will like it. There are some fun nickname options like Filly and Flick(a), which a horse-loving girl might love (My Friend Flicka!), and someone on the blog suggested Lily a while ago, which I thought was brilliant (but I can’t find that comment! Gah!). A search online yields Fi/Fee, Felly, Lucky, Tilly, and Floss(y)—Floss and Flossy are so delightfully old fashioned! (I’d probably just stay away from Flissy, Lissy, Liddy, and Cici because of their similarities to Lizzie and Ceci.) AND – so weird! – in my search I found a mom who had a daughter Felicity and her final two choices for her second daughter were Helen and Harriett!

(4) Victoria or Veronica
I actually had scribbled down Veronica when I was doing my alphabet exercise—Veronica all of a sudden seemed like a name they would like! I think of it as sort of similar to Genevieve, because of the strong V and the common nickname options Vee or Vivi. I love how Catholicky Catholic it is too.

But then Victoria showed itself to be a style match for Elizabeth, Nicholas, and Genevieve, so I thought that was intriguing! It could also take the nicknames Vee or Vivi along with the more familiar Vicky and Tori, and I hope Charlotte doesn’t mind if I point out her amazing idea of Cora as a nickname for Victoria! I love the idea of Victoria for Our Lady of Victory, and Cora for the Immaculate Heart of Mary—what a lovely Marian option!

(5) Agnes nicked Aggie
Finally, one more Helen-type name. Agnes has been on my radar a bit recently—I loved when actress Elisabeth Shue named her daughter Agnes Charles several years ago, what a cool way to mix up an otherwise pretty old-fashioned name! And the nickname Aggie is so amazing, and so like Maggie, that I thought it might be a good substitute for Margaret.

And those are my new ideas for Baby Girl Borobia! What do you all think? What else can you suggest that hasn’t already been suggested and that follows all the rules?

Baby name consultant: Baby Girl needs an obviously Catholic name

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , , ,

Jaclyn and her husband are expecting their fourth baby, a little girl! She’ll join big siblings:

Lillian Charlotte
Olivia Kathryn
Henry Sullivan

Which is just such a lovely, elegant set. ((sighing with happiness))

Jaclyn writes,

“We have really had a reawakening and increased love for our faith in the last few years, so it’s important to us that that name is a saint (or derivative) or otherwise Catholic in nature…we want someone to hear her name and just know she’s Catholic

We are currently considering Lucia/Lucy, Clare, Gianna, and Azelie/Zelie (though we really want your input on how a Midwestern American would say the name!)

We have always liked Madeline, Eleanor, and Cora as well but they didn’t feel “Catholic” enough. We liked Cecilia but ruled it out as baby has a cousin named that.”

First off, I think Jaclyn’s kiddos’ names are full of faith-y significance! And they’re very consistent style-wise, as are Madeline, Eleanor, and Cora. I’m interested that they don’t think they’re “Catholic” enough — I do know what she means I think, and I have some super duper Catholicky Catholic suggestions below — but at the same time they all can hold their own in the world of saint names: St. Madeleine Sophie Barat is amazing; Eleanor is often given as a form of Helen(a), and St. Helena is wonderful; I’ve seen Cora used recently in reference to the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary (see the comments on this post especially) — all heavy hitters!

But there are definitely names that are clearly, obviously Catholic to most people. I love how Jaclyn said, “we want someone to hear her name and just know she’s Catholic” — a beautiful hope! I guess there will always be someone who just isn’t familiar enough with Catholicism and its names to get right away that their daughter’s name is a Catholic name, but some that I think are pretty universally known include:

  • Lourdes
  • Therese, Theresa, Teresa (especially Therese, I think, but they’re all great)
  • Maria, Marie
  • Mary+[something] (Mary doubles tend to come across as nun-like, which I love)
  • Bernadette
  • Regina
  • Philomena
  • Rosary (there was a baby on the blog last spring named Rosary and I LOVE it!)
  • Rosemary, Rosemarie
  • Immaculata, Immaculee
  • Cecilia
  • Benedicta
  • Scholastica
  • Magdalene/Magdalena

Others that definitely ARE very Catholic, and almost exclusively so, but might be less likely than those listed above to come across that way, just because of having other associations as well or being unfamiliar, include:

  • Grace
  • Gemma
  • Catherine
  • Elizabeth
  • Margaret
  • Lucy, Lucia
  • Jacinta
  • Felicity
  • Clairvaux
  • Vianney (the Lourdes mentioned above has sisters Clairvaux and Vianney!)
  • Josephine
  • Genevieve
  • Evangeline
  • Karoline (that “K” points right to St. John Paul II)
  • Avila
  • Ava when paired with Maria as the middle name or as a double first name — like “Ave Maria”
  • Azelie, Zelie (I don’t think anyone else is using these but Catholics, but they’re so unfamiliar that I don’t think enough people know where this comes from)
  • Kateri
  • Gianna
  • Chiara
  • Clare
  • Perpetua (I’ve seen Pia and Pippa as nicknames for this, so sweet!)
  • Pia
  • Frances, Francesca

And then certainly there are a million other names that have saintly connections, but are so widely used by Catholics and non-Catholics that they don’t have an exclusively Catholic feel. Some people love that they just get to choose their favorite names and not worry that they’re saintly because so many (most?) names that Americans use today can trace back to a saint somehow. But when you want an obviously Catholicky Catholic name, I think a name from the lists above are your best bet.

So the names this family is considering — Clare, Lucy/Lucia, Gianna, and Azelie/Zelie — are all ones I’d consider to have that really Catholic feel they want. Clara/Clare and Lucy/Lucia are especially really similar to other names they like, style-wise.

As for their question regarding the pronunciation of Zelie, I’m guessing the pronunciation zellie, like rhyming with Kelly, would be their best bet. The Lourdes, Vianney, and Clairvaux sisters I mentioned above also have a sister named Zellie, spelled that way, which makes their pronunciation really obvious — maybe that would help? I have seen other pronunciations for it too, which I wrote about here.

It was fun to put together the lists above of names that are likely to be recognized as belonging to a Catholic girl, but of course I’m sure they don’t all fit the particular taste and style of this family. So I went through the Baby Name Wizard, as I almost always do for consultations, and looked up all the names they’ve used and liked, looking for patterns and overlap, and thought these names (which are included in the lists above) are the closest fit:

(1) Grace (or Mary Grace)
Grace seems a great fit for Jaclyn and her husband! It’s similar in style to their other kids’ names, and has such beautiful meanings, from the grace of God to Our Lady of Grace. Lovely! I especially like that I consider Lillian and Olivia to be Marian names (lilies are associated with her, and another of her titles is Our Lady of Olives), and Grace would fit right in with that. It is quite popular though, which they may not like, as the more popular a name the less any one association sticks to it, so I wondered if they might like Mary Grace? They could still call her just Grace, or Gracie, but the full Mary Grace definitely has Catholic cachet.

(2) Mary, or Mary+, or Maria
Mary on its own is being used less and less these days, which makes it kind of a bold yet very traditional and very Catholic choice. Mary could take Molly as a nickname, as Molly started out as a nickname for Mary, as did Polly; the nickname Mae would be sweet too — I’m offering all of these in case Jaclyn and her hubs like the idea of Mary as the first name but not as the everyday call name, if that makes sense.

Putting Mary in front of any names immediately “Catholicizes” it, I think, so I wondered if they’d consider something like Mary Madeline (reminds me of both Mary Margaret and Mary Magdalene, which are such traditional Catholic combos!), Mary Eleanor, Mary Cora … all so pretty! The middle names could be the call names, or both names all the time — it seems a good way to try to work in names they really like but want to be more heavy hitting faith-wise. Mary Elizabeth is another pretty combo, I know one who goes by M.E. (sounds like Emmy, so cute!). Sophia was a name that is really similar to a lot of names Jaclyn and her hubs like — maybe Mary Sophia? Maria Sophia? Which reminds me that Maria is a great option on its own, and Maria Teresa or Maria Therese would be really pretty too.

(3) Elizabeth, maybe nicknamed Zelie?
Another way of getting around the Zelie pronunciation issue is to use it as a nickname for a more common name. It’s kind of a crazy idea! But I did a consultation for blogger Jenny Uebbing a few months ago, and one of her readers suggested Elizabeth with the nickname Zelie, which incidentally I had just thought of myself before even reading it and thought was brilliant, and a reader here recently reminded me of it as well.

Even just Elizabeth on its own would be a lovely choice (or as Mary Elizabeth, as mentioned above) as it’s definitely saintly and Catholic — The Visitation is considered a really pro-life mystery, because of John the Baptist leaping in his mother’s womb for joy — so I always think of Elizabeth as a really pro-life and even Marian name, in a sense. But I know it’s been used so much that it might not come across as Catholic enough.

(4) Ava Maria
Ava showed up in my research quite a bit as a name that’s similar to others this family likes. On its own it’s certainly lovely, but pretty popular these days, and I think most people would think of Ava Gardner or other associations, but if it’s paired with Maria as a double first name, I think it’s really very Catholic sounding, as Ava Maria sounds so much like Ave Maria. It could even be hyphenated (Ava-Maria) or make it one name (Avamaria or AvaMaria).

(5) Magdalen(e)/Magdalyn/Magdalena
Finally, I wondered what Jaclyn and her hubs would think of Magdalen(e)/Magdalyn/Magdalena? It’s the origin of Madeline/Madeleine/Madelyn — they’re all variants of Magdalen(e) — but I think I’m correct in thinking that Magdalen(e) et al. come across as extra Catholic. With Magdalen(e) (or whatever spelling) they could have the nickname Maggie, which is the kind of thing I love — a bolder, more offbeat given name with a more accessible, familiar nickname. (Since they’re thinking of Clare, I was also reminded of this little Clare Magdalene, which is a combo I love!)

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for Lillian, Olivia, and Henry’s little sister?