Happy Monday, everyone! This week is winter break for both my elementary and high school kids, so if you are also on break, I hope this consultation is a fun diversion for you in the midst of the much-needed break from the stresses of school days and also the additional fun and mayhem that is always part of it, at least in my house!

Today’s consultation is for a couple expecting their second baby, a sweet sister for big sister Avila. This family has the good fortune of Avila being a surname in their family tree! I love that so much!

A funny thing to keep in mind is that the papa says, regarding names, “1880’s America is out” and, “If it came over the Oregon trail, it’s out.” That made me laugh! But also provided important info about what kinds of names he doesn’t like (to a certain extent; see my comments below).

The mama also writes,

“I feel like our style and preferences are all over the place!

We like …

• Josephine (for a long time, we said our second girl would be Josephine, but we’re second-guessing it now for some reason. We have a devotion to St. Joseph but I don’t love ‘Josie’ or ‘Jo’ for a nickname)
• Madalena or Maddalena (your spotlight post about Mary Magdalena made me cry, in a good way! I love the nicknames Lainey and Lena, we like the Italian/Portuguese feel. We like how this sounds like Madeleine — a name my husband loves — but just a little more unique)
• Lucia (pronounced loo-see-uh, but my husband does not care for Lucy, so he is hesitant, since Lucy seems like an inevitable nickname. I am Portuguese, so I like the connection to Our Lady of Fatima here, without literally naming the baby ‘Fatima’)
• Caroline (We love this name! But does it feel too preppy next to Avila and other names we gravitate towards?? It might be worth mentioning that our home/clothing/lifestyle preferences lean quite preppy, so while it fits ‘us,’ I don’t know how it goes with Avila)
• I like Edith and Edie, but my husband is strongly opposed (the Oregon trail comment haha)
• I also like Bridget, but my husband isn’t a fan

Also,

“Our style is …

• Familiar, but not super common
• Not overly saccharine (i.e. ‘Isabella’ because the nickname ‘Bella’ is just too frilly for me)
• Would like it to be a patron/tied to a saint
• Like ‘hipster’ Catholic names as much as the classic European names (two styles that I feel like are conflicting)
• We love traditional English names for boys (Charles, George, Henry) so if we go too Mediterranean this time, does that nix any English names for future children? If it helps, if this baby was a boy, we’d be strongly considering Giorgio, after Giorgio Frassati (we love him!)

Additionally, names they can’t or won’t use include:

• Jacinta
• Rose or Rosalie
• Anna
• Cecelia
• Lucy
• Edith
• Eden
• Zelie
• Clementine
• Noelle
• Marigold
• Gianna
• Isabella
• Veronica
• Siena
• Lily
• Sophia
• Colette
• Stella
• Hannah
• Felicity

And they’d like to avoid:

• Place names (since we already have Avila — we LOVE Siena but won’t use it for this reason, and because our best friends have a Siena that’s Avila’s age)
• Unless you really convince me, I’d like to avoid another ‘A’ name

Finally,

“Overall, to me, it feels like Avila could go with a very classic/traditional name theme, or could go super Mediterranean. So, it seems like baby #2 could really determine a theme for us either way.”

Baby no. 2 really does offer an interesting opportunity for parents who like names of differing styes! My favorite idea is to choose a name that provides the most possibility for future children, which is the mindset I brought to this consultation.

The “Oregon Trail” thing and the fact that the mama said Edith falls into those categories for her hubby gave me a decent idea of what names he doesn’t like. It’s unfortunate, because those names are totally back in fashion right now, and a lot of the ones I thought I might like to suggest based on what’s in fashion right now for Catholic families (like Avila) have that older feel. (In fact, I would characterize some of their list as fitting that vibe! I could easily see Josephine and Caroline riding in covered wagons, and Mad[d]alena, Lucia, and Bridget could be thought of having a late 19^th/early 20^th century immigrant feel, which might be similar to what this papa says he’s opposed to. So unfortunate! I personally love those pioneer/Old World names.)

I was very interested by how Mama defined their style. From everything she wrote, I was most inspired by the fact that their “home/clothing/lifestyle preferences lean quite preppy,” “Not overly saccharine,” “hipster Catholic names” (which is where I would put Avila), “and “classic European names.” In fact, of all those, I would say “preppy” was the most inspirational to me — if I have the right idea of what that means, I think of names that I have characterized as “pearl necklace names” for girls and “pinstripe names” for boys (the latter was the Baby Name Wizard’s description for the name Brooks, which I would think might appeal to this family). So while she worried that “classic European names” conflict with “’hipster’ Catholic names,” I think both can fit with the pearl necklace/pinstripe aesthetic, and that’s the sweet spot I was shooting for.

Also, I wanted to assure this mama that “pearl necklace names” aren’t necessarily frilly. Her example of Isabella being out because Bella is too frilly for her gave me good direction — maybe Isabel is more her speed? I like that it doesn’t naturally nickname to Bella. The nickname Isa (if they wanted to use a nickname) feels more her speed, too, as it doesn’t have the same lacy feel that Bella does. I also think the “traditional English names for boys” that this couple favors fit in perfectly with their style as I’m understanding it (although … not to play devil’s advocate, but those are the exact kind of names the pioneer boys would have! Or does Papa only dislike those kinds of girl names?).

That’s actually another good point to discuss — it’s totally normal for parents to have a different style for their girl names than their boy names! I do agree with this mama that baby no. 2 can help determine a theme for them, and if they were having a little Giorgio, I do think it would mean Caroline and Henry would feel out of place going forward. But they could totally do George/Henry/Charles for boys and Avila/Lucia/Madalena for girls, no problem at all. And when I say “no problem at all,” I mean I don’t think it would really raise any eyebrows if they were to do so because doing so is within the realm of “normal” for American parents. But if they didn’t care about what others’ perceptions are, they could simply consider their style “Catholic hipster” and have Avila, Henry, Giorgio, Zelie (though I know it’s on their “no” list), Kateri, Stanley, Fulton, and Faustina! And confuse everyone, haha! But I’d really like to figure out a way for them to be able to use all their favorite names *and* have their children’s name style make sense to them.

This would be a good time for me to go through the names they’ve discussed or are considering and offer my thoughts, in case they’re helpful:

• Josephine: I’m always a little sad when I read that parents have loved a certain name for a long time and when the time finally comes when they can use it, they’re not feeling it so much. I do understand! I’ve had the same feeling myself. But if the traditional nicknames are the only things holding them back from Josephine, maybe an unexpected nickname would solve the problem? A traditional but less common nickname for Josephine is Posy/Posey/Posie, which I think is darling and brings in the extra nice meaning of a posy being “a bunch of flowers.” Or Poesy, which is a poem/poetry. I also think Sophie can work for Josephine (but does Sophia on their list of names they won’t use make this one unusable?). I know Pina is a nickname sometimes used by those of Italian descent, since the Italian variant, Giuseppina, ends in -pina. And I’ve seen Fia sometimes suggested. So they have some options to consider that might make Josephine feel a bit fresher to them!

• Madalena/Maddalena: I love these variants! They go really nicely with Avila, and Lainey/Lena are sweet. They do take this family more in that Iberian/Mediterranean direction, which could make Josephine and Caroline feel more mismatched for future daughters, but again, I don’t think it should affect their English boy name list at all. All that said, I think I would have thought Madeleine was more their style, so I’m not surprised Papa loves it! I get a “straightforward” feel from this couple re: their girl names (Isabel instead of Isabella). So while I love Mad(d)alena, since Madeleine feels like a better fit to me but Mama would like a more unique version of it, I wonder what they would think of Magdalene? They could still use Lainey/Lena as nicknames (even though I think it’s traditionally said to rhyme with “pin”), as well as Magda and Maggie. I like that Magdalene is Catholicky Catholic but not Spanish/Portuguese/Italian (though I do love that this mama has Portuguese heritage!), which makes it a great fit for Avila and other names on their list without making them feel restricted to names from a certain part of the world.

• Lucia: Oh man, with Mama’s Portuguese heritage and love of Our Lady of Fatima, Lucia seems like a slam dunk! But if Lucy is a dealbreaker, that’s going to require some creative thinking. They could double down on Lu/Lou as a nickname, which would likely require them to use it almost exclusively and be firm and consistent with family/friends to make sure it doesn’t turn into Lucy, which could be exhausting. I could see Lu/Lou turning into Louie, which could be cute (I have a girl cousin we affectionately call Louie). Or actually, even better: Lulu! I do think that if they used Lucia at all, even occasionally, it’s very likely Lucy will emerge, but if they always and only use Lulu and introduce their daughter that way, I think that could work, and still give them the satisfaction of having Lucia on the birth certificate. For a Fatima connection, I totally would have suggested Jacinta, which seems more Avila-esque to me, but it’s on their no list … Jacinta is the Portuguese for Hyacinth, I wonder if they would be interested in that? If you watch the Pioneer Woman, you’ll know that one of her best friends is Hyacinth and she always refers to her as Hy. I also think Frances has that “straightforward” feel that I think is part of their girl name style, and could be a nod to Francisco — a different way of naming a girl for Our Lady of Fatima. (But is Frances too Oregon Trail?)

• Caroline: Based on so many things in this mama’s email, I’m not at all surprised that she and her hubby love this name and feel that it fits “them”! If they reframe their thinking about it, I think it can totally go with Avila! Many, many families have named their children after St. John Paul II by using a Charles variant, since his birth name, Karol, is the Polish for Charles. Caroline is one I’ve seen many times! If they wanted to lean into this connection even more, they could spell it Karoline. Also, to address the “preppy” concern, one of the naming trends I see and love among parents with a similar style is using surnames as first names — Sloane is sort of a stereotypical example; mothers’ maiden names are often used as well — from this perspective, Avila exactly fits into that! The fact that it’s also a super Catholic saintly place name is just amazing for a family like this, but even if they weren’t Catholic, I could see someone with Avila as a family surname choosing it for their daughter’s first name. So they’re good with Avila and Caroline both fitting their preppy style!

Okay, on to new ideas! You all know that I always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents have already used and those they like in the Baby Name Wizard (affiliate link) as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity. I did so for this family, but it was only somewhat helpful because Avila and Madalena don’t have their own entries, for example, and even if Avila did, its style is as much “surname” as “saintly place name,” which makes it equal parts amazing and complicated from a style perspective. I kept thinking about a consultation I did for a family a while ago who were expecting twin girls — “pearl necklace names” were my total focus, and there was some overlap between the names they were considering and some this family likes (they ended up naming one of their babies Caroline, and the other Evelyn, which is, in origin, derived from Avila!), so I read through those posts again. I also looked through the list of Portuguese girl names on Behind the Name for inspiration. In doing all this thinking and researching, I found it pretty difficult to stay away from the old timey names! Hopefully they like something here:

(1) Mary or Maria [something]

Not only do I love a Marian double name anyway, but I really think something like this could be a bridge between Avila and any other kind of name they like. Consider Maria Caroline, for example, either as a first+middle combo or a double first name (Maria-Caroline; I use hyphens throughout this consultation for my double name ideas because I like that it makes the double name obvious, but it’s totally not necessary if they don’t like it!). Maria hits all the Avila notes, which means the middle name can be anything they want and still fit style-wise, and they can use the middle name (or second first name, if they consider it a double first name) as the everyday call name. Consider St. Therese and her mom and sisters, who had Marie- as the first part of their first names but went by the second (or third, in St. Therese’s case). So Mary or Maria [something] could go by her middle name, or a nickname of her middle name, and might help this couple feel more comfortable using a name they like that doesn’t necessarily feel like it fits with Avila. Doing this really opens up a whole host of names! If they hadn’t already used a family surname, I would suggest they consider doing so; boyish names become feminine and Catholic when paired with Mary or Maria (something like Maria-Bennett or Mary-Blaise); names that might have nickname issues could be helped by being paired with Mary or Maria (like Mary-Lucia — I don’t think a Mary-Lucia would automatically be shortened to Lucy [to Mary, if anything, I would think], and they could have fun trying to think of mashup nicknames if they wanted to, like Mia, Marly, Marilu, Malou, that kind of thing). While Mary Clare and Mary Elizabeth might be Oregon Trail names, I don’t believe Maria-Caroline, Mary-Lucia, and Mary-Bennett are!

(2) A different kind of double name

While double Marian names are traditional and not uncommon among Catholic families, double names in general strike me as having a preppy feel. As with Mary/Maria, they could give two traditional names an unexpected twist by pairing them, or femininize or normalize an otherwise uncommon or unfamiliar name for a girl, or temper a name that might feel overly feminine for them but they’d like to consider anyway. Some ideas include Sara-Kate, Lucia-Jane, Molly-James, Caeli-Clare. Other elements that might pair up in various combos might include Tessa, Cara, June, and Nell. Some boyish names could be fun, too, like Jesse and Elliott. I was looking around online for unusual real-life double names and saw Rose-Maite (I know they don’t want to use Rose, but I looove Maite! It’s a Spanish mashup of Maria and Teresa), Anna Reid, Kara Drake, Charlie Kate, and Sarah-Taylor. I was also thinking how this mama likes Edie, and thought they could consider an E name with a D middle (or second first) and use Edie (E.D.) as the nickname. Something like Elisa-Day or Eva-Daisy could work. I also know a Mary Elizabeth who goes by M.E. (Emmy).

(3) Julia or Juliet

Julia is a style match for Madeline (standing in for Madalena, which doesn’t have its own entry in the BNW) and Caroline, and has that non-frilly “straightforward” feel that I think they might like. It leans more “classic European” than “hipster,” though, which made me think they might like Juliet even better in terms of looking for a “familiar, but not super common” name. Juliette would certainly be overly frilly for this family, I think, but I don’t think Juliet is … or maybe it is? Just by virtue of the story? It does have good faith credentials, though: I did a spotlight post here.

(4) Eliana

Eliana was in the list of Portuguese names, and it’s such a beautiful name I knew I wanted to include it! Though its Portuguese roots don’t trace back to a name of much interest, it’s simultaneously a Hebrew name that means “my God has answered,” which is so great!

(5) Beatrice/Beatrix/Beatriz

Another name that caught my eye in the list of Portuguese names was Beatriz, and Beatrice is a style match for Josephine — I really felt like this name family (Beatriz, Beatrix, Beatrice) has that same feel that this couple likes. It could be a good replacement for Bridget on the mama’s list?

(6) Vivian, Verity

Because of Avila’s prominent V, I was hesitant to include other names with prominent V’s, but it was hard to do! Genevieve, Violet, Evangeline, and Victoria are all names that showed up in my research as being similar to names they like. But I did like the idea of Vivian — again, it has that straightforward, non-frilly feel (which, like Juliet, seems more their speed than the frillier Vivienne), and if the V’s bother them, it could be a good candidate for a double name like Mary-Vivian. I also like the idea of Verity — this strikes me as a Catholic hipster name! I also think this could be cool in a double name: Mary-Verity, Maria-Verity, Verity-Jane.

(7) Sidony

I wanted to think of an idea that could possibly appeal to the part of their style that loves Siena, so I was looking for names with similar sounds, and wondered what they might think of Sidony? It’s got an amazing meaning! According to The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names (1977) (affiliate link) by E.G. Withycombe,

“this name was formerly used by Roman Catholics for girls born about the date of the Feast of the Winding Sheet (i.e., of Christ), more formally alluded to as ‘the Sacred Sendon’. Sendon or Sindon (from Latin sindon … ‘fine cloth’, ‘linen’) was used in Middle English for a fine cloth, especially one used as a shroud. The Sacred Sendon is supposed to be preserved at Turn … Sidonie is not uncommon in France, and the Irish Sidney is probably really Sidony.” (pp. 268-269).

The Feast of the Winding Sheet isn’t on the calendar anymore, but it used to be commemorated the day before Ash Wednesday. Isn’t that a cool background for a name?! So Catholic! So unexpected!

(8) Thais

I really wanted to give this couple a range of names, from Mary doubles to unusual ideas. Thais is unusual! In fact, it doesn’t fit their “familiar, but not super common” criteria, but it’s such a beautiful name that I wanted to include it. And it has a Portuguese variant (Thaís)! I spotlighted the name here. If they like it but hesitate that it’s a little too unusual, it would be a good candidate for a Mary double or other double: Mary-Thais or Ella-Thais or Clara-Thais.

I also wanted to mention a few more names that showed up in my research as matches for this family that didn’t feel quite right to include in the list above for whatever reason, but I didn’t feel right leaving them out altogether: Camila, Carina, Emilia.

As an additional note, I was thinking that Becket is a name that could be added to their list of English boy names that would also fit the Catholic hipster theme they like and be a nice match for Avila — a bridge name, maybe, between Avila and George.

And those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest for Avila’s little sister, taking into consideration the details discussed above?

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