Mary

Spotlight on: Moira

sanctanomina Spotlight , ,

Whew! Moira caused a little bit of a ruckus yesterday in the comments! Have any of the rest of you heard an Irish person tell you Moira is “made up” or “not a real Irish name”?

So I consulted my trusty sources, and this is what they say:

Withycombe (3rd edition: 1977; originally published 1945)
“apparently an attempt at rendering phonetically Maire, the Irish form of Mary. Not uncommon in England now.”

Hanks, Hardcastle, Hodges (2nd edition: 2006; first published 1990)
“Anglicized form of Irish Máire, now used throughout the English-speaking world.” (Entry on Máire: “From Old French Marie … Moira (Anglicized form)“)

Rosenkrantz and Satran in Beyond Shannon and Sean: An Enlightened Guide to Irish baby naming (1992)
“Sometimes particular individuals were responsible for introducing — or popularizing — their Irish monikers. The Names who carried these names include: … Moira Shearer,” who was an “internationally renowned British ballet dancer and actress,” born in Scotland in 1926.

Behind the Name
“Anglicized form of MÁIRE. It also coincides with Greek Μοιρα (Moira) meaning “fate, destiny”, the singular of Μοιραι, the Greek name for the Fates. They were the three female personifications of destiny in Greek mythology.” (The pronunciation they give for Máire is “MOY-ra”)

Baby Name Wizard site, from the comments for the Moira entry:

  • “First off, it’s pronounced MOR-a not MOyRAH. Sources: it’s my name. It’s the real, original correct Celtic pronunciation. It aquired the moyrah pronunciation when it was translated into English. I took several Irish dance classes when I was younger, and there were 3 other Moiras In it, all with the correct spelling also and correct pronunciation too. When pronounced Moyrah, in my opinion, it loses it’s beauty and it sounds like an old Jewish woman with nasal problems is trying to pronounce it, unsuccessfully”
  • “We named our daughter Moira because we wanted a derivation of Mary that wasn’t too common and we love Gaelic names. I had heard the name before (always pronounced MOY-rah)“

Abby at Appellation Mountain
“Mary became Máire among Irish families, probably via the French Marie.  Like many an Irish name, there’s debate over pronunciation.  I’ve come across MOY yah, MAW yah, MAW rah, MY rah, and even MAY ree, though I think that last one is probably a novel American interpretation.  In any case, pronunciation seems to have varied over place and time.

She was Anglicized as Moira, and is usually pronounced phonetically – MOY rah.  Except that sometimes she was Maura instead, with a different sound … Occasionally you’ll meet a Moira who pronounces it more like Maura … making the whole thing complicated.

But wait – there’s more.  In Ancient Greek mythology, the Three Fates were known as the Moirai.  Moira means portion or part, but is also related to the word moros – fate, and links to our word merit.  You could argue that Moira implies a proper share, a sense of order in the universe, that one gets what one deserves – making her something of a virtue name, a sister to Destiny … Between associations with the Virgin Mary and the classical idea of man’s fate, that’s quite a lot of meaning for a two-syllable name.”; from the comments: “Irish singer Enya has an older sister who also sings. Her name is Maire Brennan, and she apparently pronounces her first name MOY-yah. Actually, I believe in her latest releases she’s used an Anglicised phonetic spelling of her name”

Interestingly, I discovered that the actress Moira Kelly, born 1968, is the daughter of Irish immigrants. I put dates where I could (like the birth dates of Moira Shearer and Moira Kelly, and the publication dates of the books) to see if there was historical evidence of its use rather than a modern innovation, because it seems to me when people talk about a name being “made up,” they mean a new name they’ve never heard before. The funny thing is that so many old, established, traditional names were “made up” at one point! Consider this conversation on one of the Baby Name Wizard discussion boards:

QUESTION
Ceilidh versus Cailey
I love the Gaelic spelling of Ceilidh but I hate how trendy Kaylee and every other spelling is. Do you like Ceilidh or Cailey, however?

RESPONSES (a sampling)

  • “When you say Ceilidh are you talking about the Gaelic folk music festivals?”
  • “the Gaelic spelling is a word for a type of party, not a name. The word happens to sound the same as Kaylee”
  • “I do know how to say ceilidh, but as far as I know it’s not a name. It strikes me as similar to naming a child Potluck or Rave” (that one made me laugh!) 😀
  • “As a Scottish person, though not a Gaelic speaker, I can tell you definitively that ceilidh is not a name, it’s a word for a traditional party. I know it sounds like the name Kaylee but it’s not a name”
  • “The Gaelic word ceilidh just happens to sound the same as Kaylee. That doesn’t make it a name. This is true the other way, too: I’ve met people who turn up their noses at Kayleigh/Kaylee/etc. because “that’s a type of party”, but they’re wrong: the name isn’t Gaelic, it just happens to sound like it.”

But then:

  • “I think Ceilidh, like the dance party, is a great name, specifically because it’s an Irish word that sounds like a familiar name. Just because it isn’t used much as a personal name doesn’t mean that it can’t be — I suppose Rose/Daisy/Pearl/Noel/Colleen/any-other-noun-turned-name started out that way as well?

    I say “isn’t used much” rather than “isn’t used” because I do know a little girl with this name. Her mother spelled it differently, in order to make it clearer to Americans — I think she used the spelling Kaeli — but her intention was to give her daughter the Irish word ceilidh as a name.”

  • “I think “you were named for a dance party!” would be a very satisfying name origin story that would help a little Kaylee/Kaeli/whatever spelling feel distinctive from the other Kayleighs/etc”
  • “I probably wouldn’t choose Ceilidh because the pronounciation isn’t clear to me, but I agree, I don’t see why it cannot be used as a name. There are plenty of names that are essentially non-English words.”

I’ve also seen Irish people fuss about Colleen, Erin, and Tara, because those names are more familiar to them as words rather than names. Perhaps like our Tiber, Vesper, Rosary? This also reminds me of the list of invented literary names that have become so commonplace that many (most?) of us don’t realize they came straight out of an author’s head. Like:

  • Imogen — a particularly good example for our purposes here, since Imogen appears to be a mistranscription of the princess Innogen in Shakespeare’s Cymebeline, where Innogen “is probably derived from Gaelic inghean meaning ‘maiden.'” Not too much different from Colleen, which is “from the Irish word cailín meaning ‘girl.'”
  • Miranda — “Derived from Latin mirandus meaning “admirable, wonderful”. The name was created by Shakespeare for the heroine in his play ‘The Tempest’ (1611). It did not become a common English given name until the 20th century”
  • Vanessa — “Invented by author Jonathan Swift for his poem ‘Cadenus and Vanessa’ (1726). He arrived at it by rearranging the initial syllables of the first name and surname of Esther Vanhomrigh, his close friend”

But in all of this, it’s just a matter of unfamiliarity — if a person from Ireland, who’s only familiar with the noun ceilidh, meets someone named Ceilidh, I can see why their first reaction is, “That’s not a name!” Similar to the Rave/Potluck comment above.

But that’s not the case with Moira — it’s got a good history of use among those who are Irish and Scottish, even if some might disagree about whether it’s an appropriate anglicization of Máire or not, and disagree on pronunciation as well; not only that, but I would say its use is almost exclusively as “an Irish form of Mary,” the connection to the Greek word for the Fates notwithstanding. Truly, I think Moira is absolutely legitimate as an Irish Marian name. (There’s also a place named Moira — a town in Co. Down (Northern Ireland) — so from that perspective it could be considered similar to Bethany, Belén, Roma, and even Clare (Co. Clare), if you preferred.)

Would you be intimidated against using Moira if someone from Ireland told you it was “made up” or “not a real Irish name”? Has this post helped clarify that it absolutely can be considered an Irish Marian name, or do you disagree with my conclusion? (Feel free to be honest! And if you know any more about Moira, please share!)

 

Baby name consultant: Little Miss after 5 boys, and rethinking the planned name

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Genie, who blogs at Barefoot Abbey, and her husband are expecting their first girl after five boys! She writes,

“Our moniker muddle is that after 5 boys we are expecting a girl (in the middle of February) and are now rethinking the previously intended girl name philosophy from our courtship.

Being Anglo/celtophiles and my husband’s pride in his Scotch-Irish heritage have been factors in our sons’ names. We also try to use repetitive or similar sounds in each child’s name as a whole. For girls, our original philosophy was for our first daughter to have a Mary inspired name and then saint names (many my patronesses) for any subsequent daughters.

We have had “Moira Immaculee Clare” as our first girl name for 10 years. [Clare is a family name] … I like Therese in that spot as well.

We know about 5 Moiras over the age of 5 … Also concern was voiced that Moira did not match the other future girl names on our list.”

It’s an interesting dilemma, having had the same name chosen for ten years and five other babies, only to be unsure when it actually comes time to use it!

Genie shared the other girl names on their list, so we could see if it’s true that Moira doesn’t match the other names:

Moira Immaculee Clare
• Moira – Irish/ Scottish variant of Mary, we like the possible nickname of Molly – we just aren’t “Mo” people.
• Immaculee – obviously Marian name, we love the sound but don’t think it will work for us as a first name, coincidentally Ladybird’s (our baby) due date is near the feast of OL of Lourdes.
• Clare – family name, saint

Josephine Felicity Marie – “Josie/Jojo”
• Josephine – for Bl. Josephine Leroux martyr of the French Revolution.
• Felicity – love the meaning of the name and Ss. Felicity & Perpetua
• Marie – Marian

Genevieve Imelda Faith “Gigi”
• Genevieve – patroness, my baptismal but not legal name
• Imelda – patroness, confirmation saint at my reception into the Church from Anglicanism in ’11
• Faith – meaning

Margaret Gemma Therese – “Meg” (Little Women)
•Margaret – patroness, Ss. Margaret Clitherow & Margaret of Scotland, my 3rd baptismal name.
•Gemma – love the modern saint’s story
• Therese – love the simplicity of her little way.

Lucy Elinor Hope
• Lucy – St. Lucy day is one of our family’s favorites in Advent, Lucia of Fatima, C. S. Lewis, Lucy Maud Montgomery
• Elinor – my husband was born in the Feast of St. Helena, Austen spelling (Sense & Sensibility)
• Hope – meaning

Emmelia Magdalene Rose – “Emmie/Mila”
• Emmelia – patroness, mother of saints
• Magdalene – love that she was the first follower to see Jesus after the Resurrection, first son was due on Good Friday and was almost “Moira Magdalene Clare”
• Rose – Marian

Elizabeth Azelie Jane – “Eliza Jane” (Little House)
• Elizabeth – patroness, St. Elizabeth of Hungry, my legal middle name
• Azelie – patroness
• Jane – my husband’s grandmother & aunt, Jane Eyre

Beatrix Evangeline Hope/Anne – “Beasy”
• Beatrix – St. Beatrix of Nazareth
• Evangeline – love the sound of this, I want to say there is an obscure connection to Mary here?
• Hope – meaning
• Anne – St. Anne (Mary’s mom) & St. Anna Maria Taigi, Green Gables spelling

Aren’t they each gorgeous? I love all the meaning behind each one! The faith significance, the literary references, the nicknames (Beasy!) — wonderful job all around!

Some further info about girl names:

“Our sons are pushing for Charlotte but that’s most likely due to their love of Charlotte’s Web, and not the martyr of Compiegne. Lol!

The other philosophy we are currently considering is forgoing Moira or a Marian first name. For that theme, we would go straight into girl saint names but have a Mary connection in each daughter’s name. Unfortunately, we’re having a hard time being that creative with Marian derivatives.”

Genie’s little Miss will be joining the following well-named brothers:

Malachi Benedict Aquinas
• Malachi – first canonized saint of Ireland, “Carrots” is one of his nicknames
• Benedict – St. Benedict was a big part of our pre-marriage prep, Pope Benedict XVI
• Aquinas – Our courtship began on the feast of St. Thomas Aquinas

Noah Oliver Francis
• Noah – my husband liked the sound & justified it as being close to the Gaelic word for saint
• Oliver – last canonized saint of Ireland, he usually goes by “Noah Oliver” or the Gaelic pronounced “Ollibear”
• Francis – the patron of the parish we’d attended all our marriage. He took me there after the pub on our first date.

Liam Michael Damien
• Liam – Bl. Liam Tirry one of the 17 Irish martyrs, his nickname is the Scottish term of endearment “Ducky”
• Michael – St. Michael is one of my husband’s patrons along with St. Thomas Becket & St. John the Baptist.
• Damien – St. Damien of Molokai, my dad used to go build for the remainder of his colony.

Aelred Dominic John (this is the son we lost)
• Aelred – St. Aelred the English St. Bernard, Spiritual Friendship author, one of our sons’ favorite lullabies is Robert Burns’ “A Red Red Rose” – he was due in June. http://youtu.be/y8R1kmcoQZk
• Dominic – St. Dominic, OL of the Rosary, meaning (belonging to God)
• John – my husband’s brother (has all daughters), patron, meaning (God is gracious)

Henry Andrew James
• Henry – St. Henry Walpole & Bl. John Henry Newman
• Andrew – St. Andrew of Scotland, my husband’s middle name, he was conceived the day after praying the St. Andrew Christmas Novena
• James – St. James the Great, my grandfather’s name, his nickname is “Camino” (he’s the path God chose for our family)

And the names they’d considered if this baby had been a boy:

George Ignatius Eliot
Charles/Maximilian Joseph Louis

Just sighs of happiness all around! Great great names.

So, to start, I love Moira Immaculee Clare, a really lovely name. I’m so surprised that Genie knows multiple Moiras! I don’t think I’ve ever met any in real life, being more familiar with Maura, which is my first suggestion — perhaps they’d consider changing to Maura Immaculee Clare? I know a little Maura who goes by Molly. Maybe that would be different enough to distinguish from the other little Moiras they know, but close enough to still feel like that got to use their beloved name? Secondly, when it comes to Irish and Scottish names, I tend to not worry about, for example, sisters Moira and Josephine not matching in style — especially in Ireland, which is what I’m more familiar with, families often have a mix of super-Irish names and others, usually saints. I know a family with a Kevin, Michael, and Dermot, for example, and another with Mary and Padraic, and another with Robert and Maeve. So I think it’s totally fine.

I know Mary isn’t as exciting as Moira, but I wondered what they’d think of that? Mary Immaculee Clare is wonderful, and Molly can still be used as a nickname. Or maybe Molly Immaculee Clare? My sister is just Molly and my sister-in-law is Molly and I grew up with multiple girls named Molly/Mollie — just that, not as a nickname for Mary or another variant. Maria is also quite well used in the British Isles/Ireland (you could even pronounce it like Mariah if you wanted to be really British and confuse everyone! 😀 I have a friend who gave her daughter the middle name Maria, with Maria pronounced Mariah). Or Mariah itself? I’ve always loved it.

I posted the other day about the idea of reserving names for future babies and something one of the commenters said that has really stuck with me — and I think might be helpful here — is “which name would I be sadder not to use?” In that example, a family had chosen Felicity for a girl, only to discover they were expecting a boy, and someone had suggested Felix, which would mean they couldn’t/wouldn’t use Felicity if they ever had a girl. Would they be sadder to never get to use Felicity? For Genie, would she and her hubs be sadder/would it bother them more to cross Moira off their list, or to use a name that might bother another family and potentially be seen as not fitting with future sisters?

Regarding Evangeline as having an obscure connection to Mary, I don’t know of any official (though obscure) connections, but I think one could make a case for it, since Evangeline means “good news” and Mary was the first hearer and the bearer of Good News — perhaps she could even be thought of as the First Evangelist? I’ve often said that intention matters the most, more than a name’s actual meaning etc., so if one’s intention is to honor Mary with Evangeline and you feel you have a good way of making it all connect, I say go for it!

I didn’t know about the martyr of Compiegne, Sr. Charlotte of the Resurrection! I did a post a while ago on patrons for Caroline/Charlotte, and my heaviest focus was on the male saints (JP2, Borromeo, etc.) — I’ll have to add this new Charlotte! It’s actually a really strong style match for a lot of the names Genie and her hubs like, and with the new baby princess being Charlotte, they’ve got a great Anglophile connection there!

As for Marian derivatives, there are so many! They’ve done a great job already with Moira, Immaculee, Marie, Hope (OL of Hope), and Rose. Others that might interest them include Grace; Marian (always makes me think of Maid Marian, not a bad association!); Maureen/Mairenn; Miriam; Perpetua; Assumpta and Carmel, both of which are used in Ireland; Regina and Caeli, as well as some others I include below in my “official” suggestions.

So now, onto those suggestions! Not that I think they really need any, their list is amazing! But I thought these might strike the right notes:

(1) Annabel
Given Genie’s husband’s love of all things Scottish and her hope for a Marian name, Annabel was one of my very first thoughts for them! Behind the Name says Annabel is a “Variant of AMABEL influenced by the name ANNA. This name appears to have arisen in Scotland in the Middle Ages” … Amabel is a “Medieval feminine form of AMABILIS,” who was a fifth century (male) saint, but Amabilis is a “Late Latin name meaning “lovable”” — the very name used in the Marian title Mater Amabilis — Mother Most Amiable (where amiable=lovable). How great is that?? A pretty specifically Scottish Marian name! I love Annabel (could also spell it Annabelle), mostly for its Marian meaning, but also because visually it connects to St. Anne, one of my personal patrons and of course the patroness of this blog.

(2) Eva or Eve
I was thinking of Aoife for them, and I do love it, but I suspect they’d want something a little easier to work with, and Genie’s idea of Evangeline made me think of it. Eva can be pronounced EE-va or AY-va and goes back to Mary as the New Eve. They could also consider just Eve — I had a convo on the blog recently with a mom who was considering Eve, for Mary, but worried it wasn’t Marian enough and asked for any ideas for a middle that would help remedy that … I suggested Eve Immaculata, which just has a beautiful, meaningful ring to me, and the mom responded that she also really liked Immaculee, and given that Immaculee already features prominently in Genie’s girl list, it seems a great idea. They might also want to consider Evangeline for a first name?

(3) Rosemary/Rosemarie, Rosary
I had a friend in Ireland years ago named Rosemarie and I loved it. I also love Rosemary. Nicknames for both can include Romy or Rory/Rorie, which are the kinds of nicknames I love — a little offbeat, but with a great, solid, traditional given name. And Rosie/Rosey are of course really great nicknames.

A reader on the blog actually named her daughter Rosary! I love love love it! That family had some Irish names for their other kids, so I thought Genie might be interested in checking them out. Little Rosary herself has the full name of Rosary Brigid Elise, and her mom recently said that she often calls her Rose.

(4) Lourdes
One of the great things about the Irish (and I know I’m focusing a lot on the Irish, but I’m just not as familiar with Scotland — I hope my thoughts are transferable!) is that they use holy names of all kinds, ethnicities, languages, etc. I know of Irish girls named Jacinta and Philomena and Gemma — especially in the old days I think, they just used a lot of names of our faith, no matter where they came from. So Lourdes (as with Carmel above) strikes me as just the kind of name they might use, if they wanted to use a Marian name. I’ve written a bit about the family at the blog My Child I Love You, because the parents have scrumptious taste in names, and their youngest is Lourdes Marie Talbot. I could see Lulu and Lola working as nicknames for Lourdes, and I even think Lucy could work! Especially with a middle name like Cecilia — Lourdes Cecilia has all the sounds of Lucy. And Genie’s baby is actually due right around the feast of Our Lady of Lourdes! (The Lourdes I mentioned above was born on that same feast day!)

(5) Stella
Finally, Stella. It’s one of my favorites — I feel like I suggest it to everyone! It’s from the Marian title Stella Maris — Star of the Sea. Stella on its own is a lovely nod to Our Lady, or perhaps they’d prefer to use Stella (first name) with Maris (middle name). Or, Haley from Carrots for Michaelmas has a daughter Gwen with the middle name Stellamaris (all one word). And a reader of my blog named her daughter Maristella, which is a totally legitimate variant of the Marian title (birth announcement here, and I posted a pictureposted a picture of Our Lady, Star of the Sea on my Instagram that had “Ave Maris Stella” underneath). I kind of love the connection of the sea to Ireland and Scotland! My grandfather was born and raised in Ireland, in a coastal town, and he worked his way to the U.S. on a ship; the UK’s Apostleship of the Sea has “Stella Maris Masses” said for the seafolk in places including Aberdeen and Glasgow. So cool, right?

And those are all my thoughts and ideas for Genie’s little baby girl! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest?

Baby name consultant: Baby #5 from across the world

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Though I’ve done consultations for parents living outside of America, today’s the first time I’ve gotten to post one on the blog! Today’s mama is Chelsea from New Zealand, editor of Restless Press (which posted an interview with me last week) and blogger at Grow the Roses.

She and her husband Joseph are expecting their fifth baby on earth, little brother or sister to:

Zelie Rose
Gianna Beryl
Theodore Ignatius Tutonga
Dominic Joseph John

All of which are so my taste, I love them all!

Chelsea writes,

“With all of them we have a modern saint (last hundred or two hundred or so years, relatively recent canonisation). Zelie is named for St Zelie, Gianna for St Gianna Beretta Molla, Theodore for Blessed Theodore Romzha and St Ignatius (husband loved the name, and wouldn’t let it go so he got two saints), and Dominic for St Dominic Savio and St John Houghton (whose feast day he was born on, so that got added in as we couldn’t let that slip for a Houghton baby!).

For middle names we have done a family connected name, but we both come from huge families, with ancestry from all around the world so no shortage of options. Joseph’s grandmother comes from the Cook Islands (hence Tutonga). But there are also Scottish, Irish, Jewish (all old testament prophets), English, Polish, French … in the family. So chances are we find a name and its somewhere in the family tree! Girls we have seem to have gone with more romantic old fashioned names and boys with strong saints.”

I asked Chelsea about Tutonga, as the Cook Islands are completely unfamiliar to me, and I loved her response:

“The Cook Islands are in the middle of the Pacific. My husband’s grandmother was born there, raised in the Rarotonga royal household, but descends from the King of Atiu, an island about an hours flight from Rarotonga (the capital and biggest of the many islands). His grandfather was sent over to Rarotonga in the 1950s as the postmaster, when there weren’t many non-islanders over there, married his grandmother and brought her back to New Zealand and they’ve lived here ever since. My husband and I went over to Rarotonga and Atiu with his grandparents in 2007 for a big family reunion and learnt much of the history of the area and family. Atiu is where he proposed.

Names are passed down or given in their culture. My husband was never given a Cook Island name as a child, and while we were there his grandmother looked for a name for him … He was given the name Tutonga (which we gave to Theodore), who was the scout on the war boats as the Atiuans went from island to island.”

How cool is that? I love learning about new cultures, and learning about them through the lens of names is my favorite.

These are the names/saints Chelsea and Joseph are considering for this baby:

Antonia nicked Annie, for Blessed Antonia Mesina
Chiara, for Chiara Badano
Elodie, for St Alodia (Chelsea loves “french names, but not sure if fits with others or not”)
Marietta

Gabriel
Kolbe (but her hubs doesn’t care for it)

First off, my thoughts about Chelsea and Joseph’s current ideas:

I’d not known about Bl. Antonia Mesina until their email — what a girl! Definitely a great patron, and Annie as a nickname is awesome.

Chiara is one I would have suggested for them if they didn’t already have it on their list, I love her.

I think Elodie’s a great name for this family! It’s French, as is Zelie, and Theodore has some French usage, so I think it fits in fine.

Marietta surprised me! It’s a pretty name, and a pretty rare Marian variant currently, as far as I know — at least here in the U.S. — but not it’s not unknown. It also made me think of Majella — I wonder what they’d think of that? It’s used a decent amount as a girl’s name, after St. Gerard Majella. The pronunciation I believe is most prominent is mah-JEL-la, and it’s an anglicization of the Italian Maiella (my-EL-lah), which is also a really pretty option (though less recognizable as connected to a saint I think?).

I love Gabriel, I think it’s a great fit for this family.

Kolbe is great too, but since Chelsea’s hubs doesn’t care for it, I wonder if they would be interested in Colman? It’s totally different from Kolbe in that it’s not related to St. Maximilian and it’s not a surname, but the Kol- reminded me of Colman, and St. Colman is an Irish saint. Maybe?

I’m always a little less confident when doing a consultation for someone who’s not from America, as I have no idea what’s popular/common/outdated/ugly in New Zealand, for example. Also, I rely pretty heavily on the Baby Name Wizard book for inspiration about what names are similar to others in terms of style/feel/popularity, but it’s all based on American stats. Fortunately though, Catholic saints belong to the whole world! So hopefully these ideas are helpful. I came up with five for each gender (besides Majella and Colman listed above):

Girl

(1) Kateri
I’ll start with the girl name that I think might be least interesting to Chelsea and Joseph, as St. Kateri Tekakwitha is a Native American saint. But it’s one of the first names I thought of for them because here, families who have girls named Zelie and Gianna often have Kateri on their lists. Despite it being a Native American name, I don’t know of any other usage than by Catholics. Additionally, Kateri chose it when she was baptized because it was a variant of Katherine/Catherine and St. Catherine of Siena was her patron. So lots of good stuff going on with the name Kateri! Pronunciation is always an issue — I don’t know if there’s one particular way New Zealanders might say it, but here there are a few different acceptable pronunciations; I wrote about them (and Zelie and Gianna too!) here.

(2) Jacinta
Jacinta also has the same feel to me as Zelie, Gianna, and Kateri — I don’t know many people in English-speaking countries besides Catholics who use it. It’s one of my personal favorites, and my Confirmation name, love it.

(3) Madeleine, or Sophie, or Madeleine Sophie, or Magdalen(e)
Madeline was listed as similar to Dominic in the Baby Name Wizard, as was Sophia, and Sophia was listed as similar to Gabriel as well, all of which made me think of St. Madeleine Sophie Barat. I love both Madeleine and Sophie (I guess she went by Sophie, and her feast day in France is known as St. Sophie’s Day) and could see either/both working for this family. I like that it’s French, but not prohibitively so, if that makes any sense.

Madeleine made me think of Magdalen(e), as all the Madeline/leine names are variants of Magdalene. I think Magdalen(e) comes across as more obviously Catholic than does Madel(e)ine, and it allows for Maggie as a nickname, which is sweet, and reminds me of Chelsea’s idea of Annie for Antonia.

(4) Edith, Teresa, Benedicta
This was mostly inspired by the “relatively recent canonization” theme they have going on. St. Edith Stein is one of my favorites, and Edie is a really sweet nickname. If they didn’t care for Edith/Edie though, her religious name was Teresa Benedicta, so either Teresa or Benedicta would be great as well (and Teresa is also the spelling Mother Teresa used, which is great for a baby who will be born in the year she’s canonized; it’s also the spelling of St. Teresa of Avila. Lots of great Teresas!).

(5) Faustina (Faustine?)
Faustina is also inspired by the “recent canonization” idea. St. Faustina’s given name was actually Mary Faustina, which I also love for this family, especially since they don’t yet have a Marian first name for their girls. Since Chelsea likes French names, maybe they’d like to consider Faustine instead? The family in this post has a Faustine, so lovely!

Boy

(1) Xavier
As soon as I saw Kolbe on Chelsea’s list, I thought of Xavier. It’s a surname, and it’s Catholicky Catholic! Also, as a fun connection, after I’d already scribbled down Xavier as an idea for them, I looked up saints connected to New Zealand and discovered that St. Francis Xavier is its patron saint! I mean, come on. How cool and relevant!

(2) Edmund, Campion
I was particularly interested to find name ideas that went with the style/feel of Theodore, as I thought it struck me as just a little different than the other kids’ names, and I’m not even sure why. Edmund was listed in the BNW as a style match, and I thought it was a great suggestion because of St. Edmund Campion, such a great saint and patron! And he was canonized recently, in 1970.

St. Edmund, and Kolbe from their list, both made me also think of Campion as a first name idea. I’ve seen it used as a first name for boys, in honor of St. Edmund, and I’ve always liked the nickname Cam for a boy.

(3) Sebastian
Sebastian has a really gentlemanly feel to me, which reminds me of Theodore (Grace totally nailed it with naming two of her boys Sebastian and Theodore!), and of course it’s super saintly. The original St. Sebastian is definitely a favorite with the boys I know — they are all delightedly horrified by the images of St. Sebastian pierced by arrows. 😀 But he’s a pretty old saint, so I looked to see if there were any of more recent canonization, and discovered Bl. Sebastian Obeso Alario, beatified by Pope Benedict in 2012 — he was martyred during the Spanish Civil War.

(4) Blaise
St. Blaise is pretty old, but I think it’s a great name for a boy, since it sounds so fiery and speedy. Apparently, it’s also a French name, which I hadn’t realized, though Blaise Pascal makes sense of that. All of which means I had to suggest it, despite it not fitting into the “modern saint (last hundred or two hundred or so years, relatively recent canonisation)” parameters!

(5) Jasper, K/Casper/Caspar, Gaspar
Jasper was a surprise for me — apparently it’s a style match for Theodore and Edmund, which I wouldn’t have thought. I do love it — it’s the name traditionally associated with one of the Three Wise Men. K/Casper/Caspar and Gaspar are variants of it, so sometimes you’ll see those names given as the Wise Man instead of Jasper. Either way, I think they’re all great names! There are some recent Blesseds and Saints Gaspar/Caspar.

And those are all my ideas for Chelsea and Joseph’s littlest one! What do you all think? If any of you are from New Zealand or are familiar with the names in common use there, I’d be particularly interested in knowing if your impressions of the names are different from mine — are there any here that make you say, “Absolutely not!”?

Baby name consultant: Time keeps flying for Ana Hahn

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , , ,

When I met my husband he was a devout Evangelical, and not long after we started spending time together, I asked him to read Scott and Kimberly Hahn’s Rome Sweet Home, and when he decided to seriously investigate the teachings of the Church, he handed me a list of books he wanted to read and asked if I would order them for him and they were, almost all of them, books by Dr. Scott Hahn. I will be forever grateful for the role the Hahns played in the life I’ve been blessed with.

So when I discovered Ana Hahn’s blog Time Flies When You’re Having Babies a few years ago, I was initially really starstruck that this is Scott and Kimberly Hahn’s daughter-in-law! And her husband Mike is *the* Michael from the (really well-named) Hahn kids mentioned in the books!

But of course, as I read Ana’s blog, she became Ana of Time Flies When You’re Having Babies! and I became starry-eyed over herself, a young, faithful, Catholic wife and mom and writer who’s funny and very honest and I’ve loved reading about her and Mike’s romance and marriage and her kids’ births (I posted when her son was born) and her recipes (I’ve been meaning forever to try The Mostly Coffee Smoothie) and homemaking (basement reno!) and I felt compelled to email her almost a year ago about this post, which I so identified with. Also the photos/grams/whatever the younguns are calling them (did I see “IG’s” recently?).

When I discovered that she was expecting another baby, I was so excited (as always!) to consider what names she and Mike might like, and I was delighted (as always!) when she agreed to let me do a consultation post. Ana also hasn’t been feeling well, so I’m hopeful this will be a fun diversion for her (it would be so for me!).

Ana and Mike’s other babies have the amazing names:

Naomi Therese
Bernadette Martha
Ignatius John* (home with Jesus)
Lucy Josephine
Joseph Pio

I love them all, each one. Wonderful wonderful names. I also love how they’re kind of eclectic — Old Testament, New Testament, Church Father, French, Super Saintly — I’m guessing that Ana and Mike just go with the name that feels right, which is a great way to do it. It makes it a little harder to predict other names they might like, since the only theme I can really see is “Catholic,” which is the BEST! But also, as we know, really really huge. But! I’m never not up for a good challenge! And so I present you with my ideas for Baby Hahn:

Girl

(1) Judith
I was sure to post the spotlight on Judith last week because I had it in mind for Ana and I wanted to be able to refer to it in my consultation post for her. Naomi really inspired the idea of Judith, and I loved the connections to Mother Mary and St. Anne that I found when I was researching it.

(2) Miriam, Mary Clare, Mary Jane, Rosemary
I could make each of my Mary Names ideas their own number, but then this would be a very long list, so I thought I’d group them together. I love Miriam for the Hahns — like Judith, it was also inspired by Naomi. I’d thought of Clare/Clara and Jane and Rose as ideas on their own, but pairing them with Mary seemed a better fit for some gut-instinct reason (which means nothing, really — my gut’s not always right!). I love Mary Clare, Mary Jane, and Rosemary — each lovely, feminine, saintly, and Marian.

(3) Magdalen(e)
I was reminded the other day that Marlene Dietrich’s given name was Maria Magdalena (Marlene is a contraction of it, and was said “mar-LAY-nuh”), which was reminding me that Magdalen(e) has as much a European flavor to me as biblical, which fits in with the Frenchiness of Therese, Bernadette, and Josephine and the biblical-ness of Martha, John, and Joseph. And of course it’s Super Saintly like all of them, including Ignatius, Lucy, and Pio. And Maggie is the sweetest nickname! Lena could also work, as could Magda, both of which I really like. (My suggestion of (Mary) Clare above and Magdalen(e) here is reminding me of Philip Rivers’ baby girl Clare Magdalen(e), which is a gorgeous combo too.)

(4) Frances
I’ve been crushing on Frances recently — a little girl named Frances is more unexpected to me than a little boy named Francis, and it’s got the cutest nicknames: Francie, Frankie, Frannie. If the Hahns don’t like it for a first name, I would really love to see it in the middle spot — I think it works so well with so many names!

Boy

(1) Martin
Martin is overwhelmingly my strongest suggestion for a little boy. Again, it’s just a gut-feeling kind of thing — I love Martin as a brother to the older Hahn kids! And Martin Hahn sounds very handsome. St. Martin de Porres is a personal fave, but I also love that it could honor our new Sts. Louis and Zelie Martin. Marty’s super cute too!

(2) Gerard or Jerome
I really would love to see Gerard get more love. St. Gerard Majella is so amazing! And such a blessing to mamas during pregnancy and labor and delivery. Jerry might be a problem, feeling dated as it does, or it could be vintage cool! If Jerry’s a problem, I think Jed could totally work as a nickname. How cool is that? And Jed could so easily become … Jedi! Ahh! That’s probably crazy. Right? (Maybe Gerard Isaac –> Jedi … so cute!!! And crazy. Yes. Crazy.) (But I’m kind of digging it! 😀 )

(Also, Majella would be a pretty idea for a girl!)

Like Martin, Jerome is just a gut feeling for me for the Hahns. It’s saintly and sophisticated and traditional. Like Gerard, Jerry’s a natural nickname, but I also think they could do a Jed/Jedi kind of thing if it was paired with a middle name like David or Daniel.

(3) Gregory
I know you’re all thinking, “Gregory again?” I do feel like I’ve suggested it a lot! Including to Grace Patton, who’s friends with Ana in real life. But it’s a great name! I’d suggested the nickname Rory to Grace, and I’ve thought Grey and even Gregor could work as nicknames, but I don’t feel like any of those are Ana and Mike’s style. I kind of like Greg for them! Greg Hahn. That’s solid! And Gregory is just so impeccable — don’t forget what the Baby Name Wizard says about it: “Popes, saints, and Gregory Peck! Can a name get any more distinguished?” Love it!

(4) Benedict
I love Pope Emeritus Benedict dearly, and think naming a boy Benedict is such a nice homage to him. Ben and Benny are just great nicknames too. But maybe Benedict’s too close to Bernadette? If so, I would love it in the middle spot. Martin Benedict Hahn has a particularly handsome ring to it … 🙂

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for Baby Hahn? A very big thank you to Ana for letting me post this, and I know you’ll all join me in praying that she feels better soon!

*I hope it’s not inappropriate to keep inserting my own stories in here (so sorry Ana!), but there are a lot of connections that are making me feel like God is extra close to me today, through Ana and this consultation. Like Ana, the baby I miscarried was my third baby as well; like Ana, I feel strongly that it was a boy; like Ana, we named our baby Ignatius. She mentions in her miscarriage post that her brother-in-law had done a report on St. Ignatius of Antioch the day she felt like she was sure the baby was a boy — St. Ignatius of Antioch is who we named our baby after, as it’s my husband’s Confirmation name, chosen because St. Ignatius of Antioch’s writings on the Eucharist were the final and biggest reason he decided to convert.

 

Birth announcement: Avila Rose!

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It’s a two-birth-announcement day! Hooray! 😀

Tanya’s consultation posted at the end of September, and she emailed me today to let me know the baby arrived this past week! They gave her the beautiful name … Avila Rose!

Tanya writes,

“We had so much fun ( and a little stress) trying to find a name for her.  We enjoyed sorting through all your advice and suggestions. In the end we couldn’t agree so we decided to just wait till she was born. We ended up going with Avila Rose. Although we did break the double vowel pattern of our other kids names we feel that Avila still goes well with all the sibling names. Whether we have any more kiddos or not naming trends continue to fascinate me and I will def keep following your blog.

She was 8 lbs 10 oz and born at 4:28 on the Feast of the Epiphany (Jan 6th). We all adore her already.”

I loooove the name Avila, and I’m so excited to see it used for this beautiful baby! And paired with Rose is so lovely! Tanya posted her birth story, if you’re into that kind of thing. (I am! I so am.)

Congratulations to Tanya and Mike and big sibs Keira, Israel, Nairi, and Samuel, and happy birthday Baby Avila!!

Avila Rose

Birth announcement: Zita Fidela!

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A mama I did a private consultation for last spring emailed me to let me know what they ended up naming their daughter: Zita Fidela!

She writes,

“… we named her Zita Fidela (fee-DAY-lah). She was born April 24th, 2015 at 11:38am after a five hour labor, my first daytime baby. She weighed 7lbs9oz at birth. She’s a big girl now though, crawling all over and starting to eat food. Time flies. Zita is a super sweet baby and very much adored by our whole family. She is nearly always joyful and smiling.

How did we choose? My husband really wanted to name her Annalise. I think Annalise is a lovely name, but I didn’t like it with our last name, and Zita’s next oldest sister, only 18 months older, is Anastasia, which I felt was too similar to Annalise. We do call Anastasia, Tacy, but still…I was just not comfortable with Annalise. I had had Stella, Cecilia, Zita and Salette as top contenders, but I didn’t feel “right” about any of them. I wanted the name we chose to be just “right” as soon as I saw it. I wanted to be feel really comfortable and in love with the name, and I just wasn’t feeling it for any of those names. Then I was checking their popularity, and I found that Stella was in the top 100 last year. That killed it for me. I don’t like to do popular. (Yes, I know I have a kid named Sam…which I am okay with…but….). Then I remembered how we’d chosen our son Henry’s middle name, Gerard, as Henry was born on St Gerard’s feast day. I looked up the saint for the day, April 24, and it was St Fidelis of Sigmaringen. Read about him, he’s very cool. Remember how I wanted a name saint who was a strong champion for the faith? St Fidelis is your man. Fidelis for a girl would be Fidela, right, and then suddenly it came together. Zita Fidela. I had said whispered quite a few names to my little girl over the past few hours, listening to myself say them and wondering if they fit. When I said that one, I had that knowing feeling I had been waiting and hoping for. I texted it to my husband (at home with the other kids), hoping so hard, because I knew it was the one. And he liked it. We still had the “Are you sure? You’re really sure?” conversation the next morning when we filled out her birth certificate, but that was just because neither of us wanted to insist on a name the other didn’t want.

We are hopeless nicknamers, it seems, so we call her Little Z a lot. Also Zezu (zee-zoo) and most recently, Henry, age 5, christened her Tooch and it’s stuck a little.”

What a beautiful story!! Zita’s big sibs have the amazing names:

Maria Antonia
Henry Gerard Marie
Vincent Alexander Marie (Vinnie, Vin, Vince, Vincie)
Anastasia Evamarie (Tacy)
Samuel Quentin Marie (Sam, Sammy)

Beautiful, right? I haven’t heard Zita at all on today’s babies — Zita’s parents seem to have done the seemingly impossible in finding a truly unique but still saintly name! And Marie in each of the boys’ names! I love that so much!

Congratulations to the whole family, and happy birthday Baby Zita!!

Spotlight on: Judith

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Kerri and skimac both recently asked for a spotlight on Judith, which surprised me at first, and then as I thought about it I got a little excited about it — I’m a big fan of underused or undiscovered biblical names, and while Judith is certainly not undiscovered, I feel like these days it’s definitely underused.

Judith reminds me of Ruth, being biblical and with the -th ending that’s an uncommon ending for a girl’s name, and I’ve been loving Ruth lately, so that association automatically makes me warm to Judith. Kerri called it a “sturdy” name, and I do think it has that feel — it definitely holds up to any variation of the Supreme Court test (i.e., you can definitely picture a woman named Judith as a judge, Judge Judy notwithstanding). (And really, I think Judith is better for a judge than Judy.) (Actually, now that I think about it, and in a weird coincidence, former New York State Court of Appeals Chief Judge Judith Kaye has been on my mind because she died yesterday, yet I’d scheduled this post for today earlier this week and wasn’t even thinking of her when I started writing this, nor when I mentioned the “Supreme Court test.” She’s actually a great example of what I think of when I think of Judith — she was “the first woman named to the highest court in New York and the first to serve as the state’s chief judge — a job she held longer than any of her 21 male predecessors.” Successful, professional, perhaps a little bit stern.)

Judge Kaye was also Jewish, and I think that’s an association many have with the name Judith as well (in fact, the name’s meaning is given as “a woman from Judea” or “a Jewess”), though it’s certainly not inappropriate for those who are not Jewish — I also know Catholic and non-Catholic Christians named Judith. But the ones I know are grown-up women “of a certain age” — I don’t know any little girls! According to the SSA, it was most popular (in the top 100) from 1934 to 1964, peaking at #4 in 1940, which make it a popularity contemporary of names like Carol and Barbara — both of which we’ve talked about before as perhaps ready for a comeback. (Carol: here and here and here; Barbara: here and read subsequent comments too.) It’s been on a downward trend for years, coming in at #952 in 2014. So it can truly be considered an unusual and fairly rare choice, which is pretty exciting.

The Book of Judith in the Bible provides us with a pretty great role model in Judith — as one of my bibles says in its intro to the Book of Judith:

“The Book of Judith is a vivid story relating how, in a grave crisis, God delivered the Jewish people through the instrumentality of a woman … The beautiful hymn of the people honoring Judith (15, 9-10) is often applied to Mary in the liturgy.”

This is the hymn:

“When they had visited her, all with one accord blessed her, saying:

‘You are the glory of Jerusalem,
the surpassing joy of Israel;
You are the splendid boast of our people.

With your own hand you have done all this;
You have done good to Israel,
and God is pleased with what you have wrought.

May you be blessed by the Lord Almighty forever and ever!’

And all the people answered, ‘Amen!’“

I’m not sure I could go so far as to saying Judith is a Marian name, but the ties of the name Judith to Our Lady as revealed in this passage are beautiful — I could easily see someone choosing Judith as an offbeat homage to Mary.

There are also several Sts. and Blesseds Judith, several European royal women (including an empress and several queen consorts), and another association that I came across recently is that in the Protoevangelium of James, which is not canonical, but is nevertheless considered authoritative enough to give us the names by which we remember and honor Mother Mary’s parents, Judith was given as the name of St. Anne’s maid-servant. How cool!

Behind the Name gives several variants of Judith (Jutta, Judyta, et al.), but you know it’s the nicknames I get most excited by! Judy is super cute, but maybe still feels a little dated? It has its own history as a given name, peaking a few years later than Judith but dropping out of sight quicker, so it might have a little more of a date-stamped feel, but it’s not the only option: Jody/Jodie are possibilities, according to behindthename, which makes me also think of Jo and Josie (especially, maybe, with an S middle name? Judith Siena, for example, could easily be Josie) … or maybe pair it with an N middle name for Junie or Juno? Maybe Judith Noelle? Even Julie for something like Judith Louisa? Am I scaring you yet? Haha!

What do you all think of Judith? Would you consider it for your daughter, or have you? Do you know any little Judiths? Do they go by a nickname, and if so, what? Or older Judiths as well — I’d love to hear of non-Judy nicknames.

Updated to add: Howwww could I forget Jude as a nickname?? The spotlight I did on Jude was really the impetus for this spotlight! Thanks to Mary-Agnes for the reminder! Jude as a nickname definitely modernizes Judith I think, do you agree?

Birth announcement: Cara Maeve!

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Molly’s consultation posted back in October, and yesterday their sixth little girl arrived! She’s been given the gorgeous name … Cara Maeve!

Molly writes,

“Cara Maeve, born January 6, 2016 at 1404. 8 pounds 2 ounces … She came out and she just wasn’t a Quinn. Lol!!!“

Isn’t that just the most amazing combo?? It’s another example (like Rosemary from last week) of parents saying they’re thinking about a certain style (in this case, a unisex surnamey first name, although Cara was also on their original list) but ending up with something different. When the name’s right, you gotta go with it! And Cara Maeve is all kinds of right. Consider that Cara means “friend” in Irish and “beloved” in Italian (and “friend” and “beloved” are so close in meaning), and Maeve, according to babynamesofireland.com (my go-to for Irish names and meanings), can mean “cause of great joy,” which is a Marian title: Causa Nostrae Laetitiae, Cause of Our Joy. So Cara Maeve is packed full with beautiful faith-y significance.

Congratulations to Molly and Brian and big sisters Reilly, Kaitlin, Anna, Maura, and Meagan, and happy birthday Baby Cara!!

cara_maeve

Cara Maeve

(There’s no announcement on Molly’s blog yet, but if you keep checking I bet there will be one soon! 😉 )

Sancta Nomina goes audial

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So this posted today:

podcast_image-01.05.16

Hosted by these lovely ladies:

podcast_image2-01.05.16

Can you believe it? I barely can myself! So exciting! I’m sure you’ll have as much fun listening to Haley, Christy, and I chat about name as I had doing the actual chatting, and you’ll get to hear the name ideas I have for them if they’re blessed with more babies — be sure to let me know if you agree or disagree with my ideas, and what others you would offer based on the names they’ve already used for their kiddos!

Let’s Talk About Catholic Baby Names with Kate Towne

(When you click the link you’ll see there’s even a crazy pic of the paper I’d written my ideas for them on — that’s how I do consultations! Old school paper and pen, lots of arrows and doodling and notes in the margins. I will just say there’s an extra lot of doodling on this paper because I had it in front of me while I was talking to them, and if I have paper in front of me I.will.doodle.)

Baby name consultant: German name needed for Little Sister

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Hellooooo 2016!! 😀

This new year is starting off with a really fun consultation from one of my very first and wonderfully loyal readers:

Alyssa and her husband Klaus are expecting their second baby, a little girl! She joins big brother:

Konrad Wolfgang

Which is such an amazingly fabulous name! It’s bold, traditional, saintly, and I love how unapologetically German it is, and how they just own it!

Alyssa writes,

“I’m very excited to have just found out we are expecting a baby GIRL in March! … Here’s some info about our family:

My husband’s name is Klaus Wolfgang and for obvious reasons he really likes German names. It’s the only thing he really claims as his “style.” Our son is Konrad Wolfgang, which began as a compromise name as Klaus wanted a Klaus, Jr. but I really wasn’t going for it. So we compromised and he agreed that if the baby could have his initials, he would settle for “not a junior” and of course it had to be German. So we happened upon Konrad and fell in love. It suits him perfectly and we get lots of compliments on it. We love that it is a saint’s name, along with Wolfgang, and we found out after he was born that it was actually his great-grandmother’s maiden name, too. So, bonus points for the family connection!“

I love every single detail! I also really love that the compromise Alyssa and her hubs worked out was that they wouldn’t do the Junior he wanted, but they would use his initials — and with both Klaus and Konrad being super German, and Wolfgang being their shared middle name, it really really works as a pseudo Junior. Nice job!

“For this baby our “rules” are — must be German or have German usage, and can not start with a K. So far we only have two real contenders: Louisa and Mabel. I don’t believe either of them are saint names, which is a little disappointing to us. But I really like them both!

The middle name will definitely be Marie, as is customary with almost all of the girls in my family and of course I’m happy that it honors our Blessed Mother. I REALLY tried to talk Klaus into Edelweiss (nicknamed Ada) because throughout this pregnancy I’ve had a strong devotion to Ven. Edel Quinn. I actually hadn’t heard of her until your blog post a while ago! So I looked her up and really took to her story and her mission. Unfortunately, Edelweiss is just too out there for him. I understand, but am still a little disappointed. I was thinking about trying to sneak it in as a second middle name but since two middles aren’t really customary in either of our families, I fear it may come off as a little pretentious. What are your thoughts on two middle names? Any other suggestions on girls names?“

There are so many fun things to talk about here! German names; are-they-or-aren’t-they-saints-names; to use a second middle name or not? Let’s dig in!

I really like working on consultations for families wanting really ethnic names. I’ve learned so much about names and cultures from doing them! So I was excited to focus on German names or names with German usage for this family.

I love both Louisa and Mabel! Regarding the saintliness of Louisa — I’ve found a St. Louise who’s also known as St. Luisa and a Bl. Louise who’s also known as Bl. Louisa, both of which can work for patrons for a little Louisa, as can any of the Sts. Louis (de Montfort is a personal fave), and Louisa and Louise are the the same name, really, just linguistic variants (Louisa is the “Latinate feminine form of Louis” and Louise is the “French feminine form of Louis,”) but I do get that it’s kind of a bummer that “St. Louisa” doesn’t yield any results.

As for Mabel, it’s kind of an exciting option because Mabel is a medieval feminine form of Amabilis, which is the name of a male saint, BUT it’s also part of the Marian title Mater Amabilis (Mother Most Amiable, where amiable=lovable). So Mabel’s a Marian name! I would be so over-the-moon excited if I discovered that a name I loved but didn’t think had any saintly connection turned out to be a Marian name! I would think using a Marian first name would knock out Marie as a middle name, but maybe I’m wrong? There’s not really anything weird about Mabel Marie, and in fact it reinforces the Marian connection (like: “Mother Most Amiable, Mary”), but Alyssa and Klaus could also see it as an opportunity to use a different middle name. Like Edelweiss! I just died over the idea of Edelweiss nicked Ada, love love love!!! And that Alyssa has a devotion to Ven. Edel Quinn is amazing! Since her hubs isn’t into using it for a first name, I wonder if they would consider using just Ada as a first name? It’s sweet and spunky on its own, I think, and a fun connection is that the day after I sent this info to Alyssa, I discovered it was the feast of St. Ada! (And yes, you better believe I emailed her right away to let her know — how crazy is that?!) Otherwise, I love the idea of Mabel Edelweiss. Gorgeous!

If they don’t like that idea, though, of course I totally understand. It’s really cool that Alyssa’s family has a tradition of the girls having Marie as a middle! Another way to perhaps keep with the tradition but use another name (like Mabel) might be to re-form it as “all the girls in our family have a Marian name for either their first or their middle name.”

Which brings me to the question about two middle names. I don’t think two middle names are a bad thing! I’ve never really thought of them as pretentious either, though I could see that … something like Sebastian Roderick Maximilian does sound kind of … uppity. But something like Julia Janine Marie doesn’t to me — I would be more likely to assume the parents tried to get in two honor names. Full disclosure: three of my five siblings have two middle names! It can be kind of a hassle with official forms and such, as forms aren’t set up (in America) to take more than one middle name, so the second middle often gets dropped. I don’t think that’s necessarily a deal breaker though — I actually think it can be freeing, because you can do whatever the heck you want with the second middle name (and the third, fourth, etc., if you so choose) if you think of it more like your child’s “real” name as opposed to their “legal” name. It’s an interesting distinction — for most people, they’d probably say their real name *is* their legal name — that’s the definition of “real name.” But Alyssa and her hubs could absolutely have their baby’s legal name be Louisa Marie, and her “real” name be Louisa Marie Edelweiss, and they can bring her up knowing that, and it’ll just be part of her identity, separate from what the government knows. I don’t know, maybe it doesn’t make any sense, but it seems maybe sort of thrillingly subversive! (And now you know just how big of a name nerd I am! Haha!)

I was excited to see what other ideas I could come up with for this little girl, based on Konrad, Mabel, and Louisa, using my trusty Baby Name Wizard book (both the names listed as similar to those Alyssa and Klaus like, and its list of German names), and the list of German names at behindthename.com as well. I have five names that I think they might be intrigued by:

(1) Some form of Adele
I was absolutely amazed to see that Adela was listed as similar to Louisa, and Della (a diminutive of Adela) was similar to Mabel, both of which remind me of Ven. Edel Quinn because apparently her parents intended to name her Adele but the priest misheard and thought they meant Edel, like a diminutive of Edelweiss. So Adele and related names could be a really nice nod to Ven. Edel! Some other variants with German usage include Aleida, which I thought was really pretty (though I did read there’s a character by this name on Orange is the New Black, which I’ve never seen, so I don’t know if it’s a bad association, or neutral?), and Adelheid (though I personally prefer the variant Adelaide, which loses the German flavor though), and Adelais, which I thought was quite pretty.

(2) Eleanora/Eleanore
This would have been my first suggestion if it wasn’t for the connection of Adele to Edel, because Eleanor was listed as similar in style to Louisa; Elinor to Konrad; and Nell (a traditional nickname for Eleanor/Elinor) as similar to Mabel! Wow! The German variants were listed on behindthename as Eleonora, Eleonore, Leonore, Lore, and Nora. I like them all for this family. The El- also kinda reminds me of Edelweiss/Edel.

(3) Greta
This is one of my very favorite German names, and when I saw it listed as similar to Konrad, I knew I had to suggest it. It could work as a nickname for Margaret/Margareta, or it could be a given name on its own. The Margaret names mean “pearl,” which is always so great too — I’d feel so lucky to have pearls be “my” gem, you know? And the name Pearl was listed as similar to Mabel!

(4) Hildi
I couldn’t let a German consultation go by without suggesting Hildi! I’ve been pushing it on everyone recently, haha! It’s in honor of St. Hildegard of Bingen, who was made a Doctor of the Church by Pope Benedict. Such a big deal to have a female Doctor as a patron saint! I’m pretty sure Hildegard’s a bit much, though, and I know a little one named Hildi for St. Hildegard and I always think it’s just the sweetest. If Hildi feels too nicknamey, Hilde and Hilda are both full names, but I think Hildi works on its own just fine.

(5) Liesl
I know you’re going to laugh, but Edelweiss make me think of Liesl because of the Sound of Music! Haha! I love the name Liesl, and if we had any German I’d totally try to use it! Being that it’s a short form of Elisabeth, it’s got a saintly connection, and it kind of reminds me of Louisa sound-wise. Alyssa and her hubs could also do Elisabeth with Liesl as a nickname.

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for a little sister to Konrad in a very German family?