Biblical names

Baby name consultant: My newest nephew!

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I have the special privilege today of posting a consultation for my brother and sister-in-law! They’re expecting their second boy, a little brother for Leo Patrick.

Between various conversations over the years, especially at our family vacation this past summer, and in more recent text convos, these names emerged as very indicative of my SIL’s taste:

Francis
Beau (most likely as a middle name for Francis, and he’d go by Beau)
George
Walter
Sebastian

(I will also note that my brother has his own name thoughts, but my “client” here was my SIL, so I’m focusing on her ideas in this post.) (Sorry bro.)

I thought this was a pretty fab list — sort of distinguished and down-home all at once. Her idea of Francis Beau was really great, and probably my favorite of the ones on the boy list. I love the sophisticated Francis, which is also a family name; I love the unexpected middle Beau; and I love that he’d go by Beau — perhaps difficult to pull off as a given first name, but totally doable as a middle and a call name. SIL and I talked about the unfortunate Twilight Reimagined issue with Beau, but I wouldn’t cross it off the list yet … I would wait and see what happens — that book might never be mentioned again, and I have evidence that she liked the name before that book was even known about! An alternate suggestion is Francis Xavier, which I kind of love for them — both Francis and Xavier are, separately (!), family names for us, and Francis Xavier is the origin of the name Xavier anyway, since St. Francis Xavier is where it comes from. My own hubs quite likes Frankie for a little boy, and I can see both my brother and SIL liking that — it is pretty cute. And Frank is solid for a man.

George — Unfortunately, we all agree that George doesn’t work with their last name.

Walter — It cracks me up that SIL likes Walter, but it’s totally true that names like this are coming back! It made me think of another name I see mentioned sometimes on name boards, and it always surprises me, and I won’t be surprised if they don’t like it … but I kinda won’t be surprised if they do: Wallace. The Wal- of Walter is what really made me think of Wallace, but my brother’s love of sports also made me think of it, because whenever I see anyone considering the name Wallace, they almost always say they might use Ace as the nickname. I love that! It feels very like my brother to me.

Sebastian — Love love love. My SIL said that they love that St. Sebastian’s the patron saint of athletes and that if my IronMan brother “could name a child Nike he would.” Ha! They’re not crazy about Seb/Sebbie or Bash, but I wondered what they’d think of:

  • Baz
  • Bax (especially if the full name was Sebastian Xavier — that’s a NAME! And also exactly Grace Batton’s Bash’s name)
  • Banks (feels cool and kind of preppy; Sebastian Francis would make sense of it — B+Frank)
  • Maybe even Bo, if it was paired with an O middle name?

So let’s talk about Bo. SIL loves Beau, but that spelling is difficult right now because of the aforementioned book, and also because my brother doesn’t care for it. He doesn’t mind Bo, though, so SIL asked me for ideas to get to Bo (she said they’re fine with B.O. initials as a way of getting to Bo). This is a listing of names that *I* would consider, if I had a boy named Leo and wanted to use the nickname Bo, so I knew some of them would make my brother and SIL (especially my brother! Haha!) say what? But you never know!

  • Bonaventure, Boniface, Bartholomew, Balthazar, Barnabas — these are super-duper heavy-hitting saints’ names that are totally my style, and I think all of them could take the nickname Bo, with or without an O middle name.
  • Boaz — Not only do I think Boaz is a really cool name, but I love the biblical Boaz, who was Ruth’s husband. It’s short and zippy like Leo, it’s got the snappy z at the end, and it very naturally takes the nickname Bo.
  • [John] Bosco — this is one that I could actually see them going for. Grace Patton named her newest baby Bosco, but I’m thinking that they might like the full John Bosco (first name-middle name) even better, with the nickname Bo. St. John Bosco is a great saint, a great patron for a little boy, just like St. Leo the Great.
  • Ambrose — we’ve actually had Ambrose on our list for a while, mostly because he’s one of the Church Fathers and a great saint, and because my father-in-law had a connection to St. Ambrose, but also because we both really like it. I’ve always thought Sam and Bram would be perfect nicknames for it, but it occurred to me recently that Bo works as well. (Along with all of the suggestions in my first two bullet points, I can picture my brother saying, “Ambrose?” with a baffled/not-loving-it look on his face, so I thought I’d link to this cutie here named Ambrose, and this one‘s now a teenager! Ambrose has a little of that old-man feel to it that my SIL seem to like. Also, fun fact: the term “sideburns” comes from Civil War general Ambrose Burnside, who had some epic sideburns! Also the Baby Name Wizard says about Ambrose, “Ambrose is like a handlebar mustache, so cheerfully outdated and overblown that it’s actually a lot of fun.” Love it!
  • Benedict or Bennett — I suspect my brother and SIL would like Bennett more than Benedict, but Bennett’s a medieval form of Benedict, so it gets the saintly reference in there anyway. Bennett would be a prime candidate to pair with an O middle name for the nickname Bo.
  • Brendan — this is another of my top choices for them — it’s Irish (they like Irish), it’s traditional, it’s a solid boy’s name. Brendan O– would be a great way of getting to Bo.
  • William — this too is a top choice for them — I was thinking of names that don’t start with B but have a traditional B nickname (like Robert, which is not usable for them) and I thought of William/Billy. William is a family name on both my parents’ sides, which is great, and I def think Bo could work, initials for Billy O. I really like it for them.

So my top choices for this baby if he were to have the nickname Bo are John Bosco, Brendan O., and William O., but I do like all the ideas on this list.

And of course I have a bunch of new ideas as well! I always shoot for at least three, but I came up with seven for my new little nephew:

(1) Henry
Henry was one of the first ideas I had for them — I love it with Leo, but honestly it was the nickname Hank that clinched it for me. I could totally see my brother and SIL liking Hank! Hank reminds me of George and Walter, they’d all be smoking their pipes on the porch together. I also liked that it has a connection to my SIL — in a very roundabout way — via the fact that she studied abroad Scotland, because Wills was at St. Andrew when she was (so cool, right?!), and of course his brother is Prince Harry, whose given name is Henry (Harry’s a traditional nickname for Henry). (Very roundabout.)

(2) James Blaine
I was on a little bit of a first name-middle name kick when I was doing this for my SIL, with Francis Beau, Francis Xavier, and John Bosco on the brain. James Blaine was my great-grandfather and he went by Blaine. I suspect that if they used James Blaine they’d prefer to call the baby James, but there’s Jamie and Jem too (I LOVE Jem — it’s one of Anne Shirley’s sons, a nickname for James, and I’d totally forgotten until I looked up that link that another of Anne’s sons was Walter!), or I think Bo could work for Blaine, no? I also have a friend who married a man from Scotland, and one of their boys is James, just James, so it feels “Scottish” to me, which, again, I associate with my SIL.

(3) Gregory
I started out thinking about Rory for this baby, which reminded me that I’d suggested Rory as a nickname for Gregory to Grace Patton, and then I thought Gregory actually seems like a great fit. Again, this might be one of those names that I would be more likely to use as a brother to Leo than my brother and SIL, but there aren’t that many St. the Greats and St. Leo the Great and St. Gregory the Great are two of them, both popes, so I’ve always thought they make good brother names. I actually love the nickname Rory for them too — it gets away from Greg (no offense intended for anyone who loves Greg!) and has the Irishness going on.

(4) Oliver
My hubs and I talked about Oliver through my first two pregnancies and had decided on it for our No. 3 but then cooled on it when I was six months pregnant. I’m not sure why either, we both love it, it just hasn’t felt like one of our boys. But my brother and SIL seem to love O (Leo and Bo), and Oliver’s serious, bookish, sort of Irish-y or Brit feel I find really attractive.

(5) Simon
I consider Simon to have a similar feel to Oliver — serious and bookish — but with a good dose of biblical, which I personally love. I think Leo and Simon are a great brother set!

(6) Russell
When Leo was on the way, I asked everyone what their name ideas were — what did we all think they would choose, based on what we knew of their taste (my brother and SIL didn’t share their name ideas until the birth) — and my husband’s only idea was Russell. I was so surprised by it, but he said he could see my brother liking Russell, and the nickname Russ, and this time around I feel like it’s a good suggestion. It reminds me of the old-man names SIL likes, and was listed as a style match for Rosemary, which is a name I know she likes, so I thought it was a good suggestion. My hubs did want to go on record, though, as saying that this time around he actually doesn’t think my brother will like it because of the Seahawks quarterback. (I would never have thought of that.)

(7) Tristan
This suggestion is a little out there — I personally love the name Tristan, and I thought it made sense to throw out an offbeat suggestion, just in case. It’s a style match for Sebastian and Xavier, and it’s got the Irish-y connection. I’m not sure I would use the nickname Tris, as that’s the name of the main character (female) in the Divergent series, but I could see Trip (if with a P middle) or Trio (haha!) if with an O middle. I don’t know, maybe it’s a crazy idea … For some reason I can see my brother liking it more than my SIL. When I asked my hubs what he thinks of it, he said he doesn’t hate it and that Tristan Thompson is pretty well known right now as a basketball player, so it’s not unheard of anymore.

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? If you had a Leo, and your taste was Francis-Beau-Walter-George-Sebastian, what would you name his little brother? Thank you from an excited Auntie! 🙂

Baby name consultant: First baby!

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Jackie and Mike are expecting their first baby, a boy! Jackie writes,

“We are at a stand still when it comes to boy names. Early on I was convinced that the little one was a girl, and picked the name Felicity Marie — I loved its meaning, it had family connections and I just fell in love with it. but then we found out its a boy after all. And though I am really excited to have a boy, We haven’t found a name that seems to hold up to the girl name … [It’s] important to note that faith, prayer and the holy spirit definitely played a huge part in our journey, and we are so excited to share our faith with our new family, starting with an awesome name.

As for naming style — we agree strongly that we want a saint’s name, and that a family name would be great as well. My husband likes simple names (his term), whereas I like names that are traditional and familiar, but I get worried about being too ordinary or too popular. I’m also struggling because I soooo felt like Felicity was perfect (it means happy) and Marie has been in my family 500 years….“

(Haha! “500 years”! I laughed out loud the first time I read it, and I laughed again now as I typed it in here. 😀 )

“Additional considerations: we have a very German surname … which has been difficult to match with. Also we both come from large families which leads too lots of name would rather not repeat as first names, but would consider for the middle.”

The names that Jackie and Mike are considering include:

Gabriel
Gavin
David
Thomas
John
Simon/Simeon
Zachary
Jacob
Jules/Julian

And family names they love but wouldn’t use as first names:

Anthony
Neal/Cornelius
Gerold
William
Michael
Steven
Edward/Edmund
Andrew
Eugene

Alrighty, the first thing that jumped out at me was that Jackie noted that “faith, prayer and the holy spirit definitely played a huge part” in their relationship, which reminded me that I’d done a post a while back on names to use as a nod to the Holy Spirit. I took a look at the ideas listed there and thought some of them might interest her and her hubs:

  • Hugo—According to Behind the Name it comes from “the Germanic element hug, meaning ‘heart, mind, spirit.’” Hugo’s actually one of my top choices for them, as I looked up all the names on their list, including Felicity, in the Baby Name Wizard book, which has, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity, and Hugh was a pretty big match. It could also be a “Holy Spirit” name, as Hugh and Hugo are variants of the same name, but for some reason I felt like Hugo was more Jackie and Mike’s style. It seemed more similar to Felicity’s style to me.
  • Jonah—Jonah means “dove,” which is the tie-in to the Holy Spirit. It’s similar to Gabriel, Zachary, Simeon, and Jacob from their list, so I thought they might like it.
  • Colum—this is another of my top suggestions for them. As a Holy Spirit name, it also means “dove,” from the Latin columba, which is also an Irish saint’s name (St. Columba), and Colum is a variant. Malcolm also popped up in my Baby Name Wizard research as similar to their taste, which literally means “follower of St. Columba” in Irish—“mal” + “colm” (Colm is another spelling of Colum), so I saw that as another sign to include it in my suggestions for this baby.
  • Abel—The word “spirit” comes from the Latin “to breathe,” and Abel means “breath,” so I thought that might work. It’s also heavy duty Old Testament like some of the other names on Jackie and Mike’s list, I really like it.
  • Ignatius—Maybe, for Mike’s sake, this should be considered only as a middle name? 🙂 Ignatius can be related to the Latin ignis, meaning “fiery,” like “tongues of fire.” It’s a bold choice for sure, but it has some great nickname potential—Iggy, Nate, and Nash. And actress Cate Blanchett has an Ignatiusactress Cate Blanchett has an Ignatius!
  • Kenneth—this is also a fire-related name, from the Irish Cinaed, which means “born of the fire.”

So those were the Holy Spirit names that I thought might appeal to Jackie and Mike, but I have other non-Holy Spirit names to suggest as well. I gave heavy consideration toward names that I thought fit the feel of Felicity, and also the feel of Gavin, which was so different from their other names that I thought it revealed something about their taste. I also think all these would count as “simple” names (well, maybe not Sebastian as much) in keeping with Mike’s taste?

(1) Colin (Nicholas)
I was kind of blown away by how well Nicholas and Colin matched up with their taste in names! Especially since Colin is a medieval diminutive of Nicholas! Nicholas was listed as similar to Gabriel, Zachary, Julian, Anthony, and Andrew, and Colin is similar to Gavin, Simon, and Felicity. Given that Colin is similar to both Felicity and Gavin, both of which I really used as markers of their taste, you can see why Colin is my predominant suggestion here! It pairs up nicely with several of their family names too—I think Colin Anthony might be my favorite, and I also love Colin Michael.

(2) Jude
Jules and Julian on Jackie and Mike’s list both made me think of Jude (the Beatles song “Hey Jude” was written for Julian Lennon and was originally “Hey Jules”), and I love Jude as an idea for them. It’s so saintly and biblical, a great option, and really similar to so many of the names on their list. Jude Anthony (wow, what a one-two saint punch that name is!), Jude Edward, Jude William, and Jude Michael are all jumping out at me as really nice combos.

(3) Conrad
Conrad showed up a couple times, mostly as matches for the names on their middle-name list (specifically Cornelius and Edmund), and I decided to include it because it goes really well with a German last name, and I’ve recently been loving St. Conrad of Parzham, who was a German Franciscan. Cord is a traditional nickname for Conrad, and I could see it turning into Cordy, which I love—it reminds me of Gordy and Jordy, which have always been favorites of mine, nickname-wise. I would LOVE something like Conrad Cornelius, wow!! 😀 They could maybe even consider Conrad an honor name for the Cornelius in their lives, as the first four letters of Conrad are the same as that of Cornelius, just in a different order (I wrote about that kind of thing this morning here). Conrad Eugene also has a nice rhythm, and Conrad Michael would be so nice for Mike.

(4) Oliver
Simon, Julian, and Felicity all had Oliver as a style match, and I love it for this family. St. Oliver Plunket is a great Irish saint, and Our Lady of Olives could also be the patron. Oliver William, Oliver Anthony, Oliver Michael, Oliver Steven, Oliver Edward, Oliver Edmund, Oliver Andrew, Oliver Eugene all flow really nicely, it’s easy to work with!

(5) Sebastian
I was surprised to not see Sebastian on their list! It’s a style match for Felicity and Julian, and one of those heavy-duty saints’ names that often show up in lists like Jackie and Mike’s. Seb/Sebby and Bash are great nicknames for it, though I love the full Sebastian. Short middle names go really well with long first names imo, and I think Sebastian Neal Schubert is very handsome; I also love Sebastian Michael.

So those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What would you suggest for Jackie and Mike’s baby boy?

Birth announcement: David Newton, Jr.!

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Mandi from A Blog About Miscarriage has had her baby! The consultation I posted for her back in September focused on a middle name for a girl, but it was all moot because she has welcomed a son — David Newton, Jr.!

She writes,

“Our son was born Wednesday, November 11 at 6:25pm. He was several days late but when he finally came, he was born less than an hour after labor started.  He was delivered by his daddy in the car!

We had narrowed down middle names for Cecilia to two front runners, Clare and Rose, with Paloma and Zelie as wild cards still in consideration, but decided to wait until the baby was born to make a final decision. Since baby was a boy, it turns out we never needed to. 

We named our son David Newton Richards, Jr. He shares his name with not only his father but his great grandfather and great great grandfather. My husband was given that name after his grandfather who died when my father-in-law was a teenager. He has a first cousin named David after their grandfather as well (and his son has the middle name David), so we have lots of Davids in the family and we are honored to pass on the tradition. My brother is a Jr. and I always loved that naming tradition so I planned to have my son be a Jr.  long before I met my husband. It was serendipitous that the man I did meet happened to have an awesome name with a rich family history. I used to not care for Newton much but I’ve grown to love that it’s old fashioned and uncommon. It hasn’t been in the top 1000 boys names in the U.S. since 1957! 

We haven’t come up with a nickname for little David yet (which I feel is kind of necessary to distinguish him in conversation from his dad) but are using a bunch and seeing which feels right. Being the nickname queen, maybe you have some suggestions for us that we haven’t considered? I myself am a bit partial to Newt but I don’t think I’ll be able to get that one to fly 🙂 “

What a wonderful family naming tradition little David was born into!! (Also, did you catch that — he was born in the car!)

Mandi asked for nickname ideas for David (she called me the “nickname queen”!! 😀 ), so these are mine:

  • (I love Newt!)
  • Certainly there’s Dave and Davey — Davey especially has kind of a throwback little guy feel, so sweet!
  • My grandfather was from Ireland and his name was David but his nickname growing up was Daithín (I think that’s how it’s spelled) — Irish for “little Daithi,” where Daithi is the Irish for David. Daithi is pronounced DAH-hee and Daithín like dah-HEEN, so maybe dah-HEEN? (Not sure how you’d want to spell it though! Daheen looks too feminine? And Daithín too Irish?)
  • My cousin is David Jr. and he goes by DJ, so maybe that?
  • You know I’m a big fan of combining first and middle names to come up with nicknames — in this case, maybe David Newton could become Danny? Not that unusual, but distinct from Dad. Or Dane?
  • Or Junior! (I hear Sean Connery saying, “Junior!” in his fabulous accent from the Indiana Jones movies! Haha!) Or just Jay? From Junior, which is kind of like Dave but different?
  • You could also do Richie, which is such a common thing for guys to go by (their last names, or nicknames of their last names), but maybe that’s weird to start at home? Is that more of a nickname that buddies bestow in high school?
  • This is a little crazy, but could be cute — what about D2? Like David II? It’s different, it’s Star Wars-y? Or just D, for that matter?
  • Or what about Dewi? It’s the Welsh version of David, and St. David of Wales is known as Dewi Sant, and Dewi’s kind of like David and Newton smushed together!

What nicknames would you suggest for little David Jr.?

You can read more about this little guy’s car birth in Mandi’s announcement on her blog. Congratulations to Mandi and David Sr. and big sister Lucia, and happy birthday Baby David!!

david_newton1

David Newton, Jr.

david_newton2

Hi Mister!

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Proud big sister Lucia

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Tiny guy!

Baby name consultant: “Normal” Catholicky name needed for Baby #4

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Karra and her husband are expecting their fourth baby, a little green bean (=gender unknown)! 🙂 Their other kiddos’ names are:

Clare Hope
Samuel Joseph
Lucy Faith

*Happy sigh.* Lovely. And I love the Hope and Faith middles shared by the girls, even though Karra writes,

“For the girls middle I do not like love or charity so I’m letting my theme of the virtues end with this baby (if it’s a girl). Although I do like mercy or verity (found on your blog-thanks) as a middle name. I’m not a huge fan of nicknames unless I like the nickname (my son is Sam). I like really catholicy sounding names, my husband thinks we need to stick to normal names because our other children have normal names.”

Fortunately, there are lots of good Catholicky Catholic “normal” names! Woo! 😀

The names they’re considering for girls are:

Susanna (“I do like the nickname Susie“)
Felicity
Cora (“this and Mary are my husbands top choice“)
Mary (“I really wanted a Mary combination name but cannot find one I like. I for obvious reasons cannot use Mary Clare which I LOVE. Also out are Mary Anne, Mary Jane, and Mary Lou (too close to Lucy-who sometimes gets called Lu). Mary Ellen is the new American girl doll so I wouldn’t use that. We’ve thrown around Mary Therese but I feel like people would drop the Therese even though she would have a middle name as well“)
Zelie (“we debate the pronunciation, I say zay lee, my husband wants zellie which is why I don’t think we will ultimately pick this name“)
Helena

Note: “Cora and Mary are my grandmothers who have died recently. Francis is also a family name on my side and Frank is on my husbands. It goes without saying that if the first name isn’t a saint, we would use a saint name as a middle to be their patron“

Their list for boys includes:

Blaise
Christian (“pretty much out because my husband insists he will be called Chris and I do NOT like Chris, his name would be Christian“)
Francis (“nicked Frankie — my husbands top name but not my favorite and I’m really leaning towards the others“)
Caleb (“goes with Old Testament first name for boy“)
Micah (“again with Old Testament“)
Xavier
Emmaus (“my husband does not like this name but I love it and I will always keep it on my list“)

Okay, so first off, as I said, I do love that they used Faith and Hope already for middle names for their girls, but I totally get not wanting to do Love or Charity. I wonder though if they might like the idea of something like Amor? I’m so glad that they like Verity and Mercy — those are some of my favorites too. I thought Grace and Joy might also work, and Charis means grace and is contained within the word eucharist and is related to Charity, so I thought I’d offer that suggestion as well. Or Caritas? I’ve also seen Cora used recently as a nod to the Sacred Heart (cor in Latin) — maybe Cora could be their “love” name? Kind of two birds with one stone — Grandma Cora and “love”?

I LOVE their girl list! Susanna and Felicity are favorites of mine too, as are Zelie (but yes, the pronunciation!) and Helena. Beautiful!

Mary doubles are so great, I always love them. Mary Kate and Mary Grace both have a similar feel to me as Mary Clare, I wonder if they’d like either of them? Mary Grace is kind of cool because then they could get a virtue name in there like the other girls. Or Mary Cora? I know a couple Mary Elizabeths also, and one of them goes by M.E. (sounds like Emmy), which is sweet. Re: Mary Therese, I think if they always call her Mary Therese, and immediately and firmly correct anyone who drops the Therese, it should be okay. If it’s still feeling troublesome to them though, I wonder if they might like Mary Tess or Mary Tessa? There was a mama recently who named her daughter Tessa for St. Therese. I think either of those combos is great because they’re unexpected (I’ve never heard of a Mary Tess or Mary Tessa) but familiar at the same time. Or Mary Charis? Too close to Clare?

As for their boy names, they’re also some of my favorites! Blaise and Xavier are super saintly, which I love. Caleb and Micah are awesome, and Micah is definitely a name we need to reclaim from the girls. I’ve always loved Christian too, but if Karra doesn’t care for Chris (which is probably one of those mostly inevitable nicknames, especially if Dad likes it) maybe she’d like to find a different nickname for Christian? I’ve seen Kit used recently for it. Francis nicked Frankie is one of my husband’s faves too, funny – maybe it’s a guy thing? It would be really cute on a little boy.

And Emmaus! Ooh I love it! I’ve never seen it used as a name, though I’ve long thought it has potential as one. (I wrote about it here  and here.) This might seem totally out of left field, but Emmaus and Christian both made me think of nouns-as-names in general (as I wrote about in those two posts), and Fisher came to mind — like Jesus telling the Apostles they would be fishers of men — and also St. John Fisher, who’s such a great saint. It shares some sounds with Francis so … maybe? And Fisher makes me think of Fulton, for Fulton Sheen — maybe that would interest Karra and her husband? (Also, I kept thinking Fulton and Samuel go really well together and then I remembered that this mama used that very combo!)

As you all know, I looked up all the names Karra and her hubs have already used for their other kids in the Baby Name Wizard book, which has the amazing feature of listing, for each entry, boys and girls names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. The results inspired some good ideas for this family, I think (that book is uncannily accurate!). I always shoot for three suggestions, but I came up with four for each gender here:

Girl
(1) Tessa
I mentioned Tessa above as the second half of a Mary+ name, but I think it would be smashing as a first name for this baby all on its own. I mentioned above the mama who recently named her baby Tessa for St. Therese, and her older daughter is Clara, so it seems an extra good fit.

(2) Juliet or Annabel(le)
I suggested Juliet for this little girl recently, and her parents ended up using it, and that particular family was in mind for me a lot while doing this consultation because their style feels similar to Karra’s, to me. They have a Tessa too! Juliet is a French diminutive of Julia, so St. Julia could be the patron, or St. Julian if they prefer.

Annabel(le) seemed to be in every list Juliet was in when I looked up this family’s names in the BNW — it reminds me of Susanna, but has its own spin as well. It’s not as obviously saintly, but behindthename.com says the spelling Annabel is a variant of Amabel, which comes from the male name Amabilis meaning “lovable.” So that’s kind of cool, right? A “love” name without it being love? St. Amabilis was a 5th century priest BUT even better is the Marian title Mater Amabilis (Mother most amiable=lovable). Or it could be Anna + Belle=St. Anne and St. Isabel(le) or Elizabeth, or St. Anne + “beautiful.”

(3) Camille or Camilla
I was surprised by this one, but Camille/a showed up over and over again in the BNW as similar to names this family likes: Clare, Hope, Helena, Xavier, and Blaise, as well as my idea of Juliet. There’s a St. Camilla and a St. Camillus (which is where Camille/a comes from).

(4) Elizabeth/Elisabeth, Eliza, Elisa, Elise
Variants of Elizabeth were all over their lists in the BNW! I love the full Elizabeth (Our Lady’s cousin, and St. Elizabeth Ann Seton), or Elisabeth (like Servant of God Elisabeth Leseur, amazing woman), but I suspect the shorter Eliza, Elisa, or Elise might appeal to Karra and her hubs more, given the shortness of Clare and Lucy’s names.

Boy
(1) Gabriel
I would have suggested this for this family anyway — right away it seemed like a good fit for them, being biblical like Samuel and well used among Catholic families as well — so I loved seeing it listed as similar to so many of the names they like: Samuel, Faith, Susanna, Caleb, Micah, Xavier, Christian.

(2) Benjamin or Bennett
Benjamin has a similar feel to me as Gabriel, and it’s a great match for all of the biblical names they like, including Samuel — Samuel and Benjamin/Sam and Ben are brother pairs that I see quite often. They go together so well! I wavered on whether or not to suggest Bennett as well and decided to go ahead and do it — it’s got the same great Ben nickname as Benjamin, but it’s a medieval variant of Benedict, so it’s more saintly than biblical. The family I referenced above who has a Juliet and Tessa also have a Bennett, which is where I got the idea for this family from, and then it was listed as a style match for Hope and Clare and my ideas of Juliet, Elise, Camilla, and Annabelle. There is the slight issue of Benjamin and Bennett starting with the same letter as Karra and her husband’s last name, but I actually really like the sound of Benjamin B./Bennett B./Ben B.

(3) Isaac
Isaac is a personal fave of mine, top of my list if we ever have another boy. It’s super biblical and super saintly at the same time — not an easy combo to come by! St. Isaac Jogues is one of the North American martyrs and he was martyred at the same place St. Kateri was born (Auriesville, NY). St. Isaac was French, which fits in well with Blaise and Xavier as well.

(4) August or Austin
I didn’t think the full Augustine would suit this family, but I thought August might — it’s trimmer, but still as saintly and with the same nickname possibilities as Augustine (Augie, Gus). It’s a style match for Clare, Verity, and Mercy as well. And Austin, like Bennett, is also a medieval variant — of Augustine. I know a little Austin who has a brother named Christian, so they seem to go together to me. Actually, that family’s naming style might appeal to Karra — there’s some similarity style-wise (the first eight kids’ names here and the ninth here).

And those are all my ideas for this little Miss or Mister! What suggestions do you all have for Karra and her husband?

Baby name consultant: Baby Borobia #8

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I think of Dwija Borobia of House Unseen. Life Unscripted. as a mix of who and how I’d love to be and also holy cow I just don’t think I could ever do it. By “who and how I’d like to be” I mean: someone who gave up all they knew and were familiar with for Jesus. And Mary. And NFP and all that that entails (awesome post btw). And the whole rest of the Catholic life and catechism that makes absolutely zero sense to everyone else. (I’ve never had to make that choice, not really — this life and faith was mine by birth and I’m eternally grateful, but I’m always always so moved by those who have made such brave decisions and I just always hope and pray I’d be so strong if ever faced with a similar situation.)

By “holy cow I just don’t think I could ever do it” I mean this, from her About Me page, which is too hilarious and *her* for me not to just post it:

“This blog started a little bit by accident as a way to share our misadventures in fixing up our fixer-upper that we bought sight unseen off the internet. Because when your in-laws (and this is an important tip) read a facebook update about you finding snakes in your kitchen walls, you’ll be all “Hahahaha! Isn’t that wacky?” and they’ll be all “Ohsweetbabyjeezus, my grandchildren are going to get eaten by wild boars! Or snakes! As it were!”

So you start a blog so everyone can get the whole story and they don’t imagine a shanty and an outhouse and then start praying novenas to the patron saint of People Getting Some Sense Knocked into Them.”

(Hm. Well, maybe when I say “I just don’t think I could ever do it” what I mean is that I like and thrive on familiar and stable and risk taking is not really part of my wiring … BUT, speaking of wiring, I love love love a good house renovation. And so yes, I’ve drooled (and taken notes) over these before and after pics a time or two. So I think maybe it’s the “Life Unscripted” part I’d have the most trouble with, not the “House Unseen” part. Also the snakes in the walls.)

ANYWAY we aren’t here today to talk about house renos, as fun and fab as they are … as you’ve come to expect, we are here to talk about BABY NAMES because Dwija’s expecting her eighth baby and there’s NO STOPPING my excitement when there’s a baby on the way! ESPECIALLY when that wee one needs a name! Dwija has graciously allowed me to offer some ideas, and I’m so excited to do so, even though she and her husband have done an amazing job with their others so letting me do this is probably more charity than necessity on their part. They have, in order:

Kathryn Marisol (Katie)
Elizabeth Anne (Lizzie)
Paul Anthony
Cecilia Jean (Ceci)
Mary Isabel
Nicholas Robert (home with Jesus)
John Charles (Charlie, but I love love seeing #dailyjohncharles on IG — what a great first-middle combo that is!)

Beautiful, right? Classic, saintly, solid.

For this baby, if a girl, Dwija says,

“Right now we have one girl name on the list: Helen (no middle name) and zero boy names … [Also] Teresa, Monica…pretty much I’ve decided on Helen for a first name though if it’s a girl to be honest. We are just undecided on a middle name. BUT if you have some other first name ideas, I’d love to hear them! … Oh, I like Margaret too!”

And for a little Mister,

“We are running low on ideas actually, especially for boy names that we both like and that fit all the ridiculous rules we’ve created 😉 … [seriously,].zero boy names. Hah! We’ve talked about some that are not on the “no way” list- Martin, Dominic, Gabriel.”

Wait! Did she say something about “ridiculous rules”??? Yesssss!!!! I just love rules, no joke—a good name challenge is the best! They are:

“T [hubs] does NOT like William because of William of Orange (true story. This is what I mean about all our weird rules!)

More rules include:
Must be a saint name but not a quirky one (no Scholastica or Cosmas, etc.)

Must exist somewhere in one of our families (you won’t be able to know this, but that’s okay)

Cannot start with a letter we’ve already used.

Cannot start with a B

Initials can’t make a potentially embarrassing word (MIB made it through because I don’t think her friends are going to know anything about Men in Black. Are you starting to see how crazy I am???)”

So I clapped my hands and rubbed them together gleefully and got my cup of coffee and my Baby Name Wizard and my thousands of other name books and went digging around in my mental archives of saints and names and came up with what I think are some pretty great options. They fit all The Rules as far as they can — I just don’t know, as Dwija pointed out, if they fit the “family name” req or of course the always subjective and not always entirely predictable do-I-like-it-or-don’t-I test. (Also, regarding those rules, I just have to say — preeetty sneaky getting a Ceci and Charlie in the same family when one of The Rules is no repeating first initials — just tack a John on the front of that Charles and you’re good to go! Brilliant!)

First though, just some quick thoughts about the names on their current list:

I love Helen. Beautiful name, beautiful saint, great for a sister of the Borobia children. Dwija didn’t ask for middle name ideas, but Helen Sophia was striking me as a really gorgeous combo.

Teresa, Monica, and Margaret are great options too, and gave me a really good idea of their taste and style, BUT — Monica and Margaret repeat Mary’s M, so they’re out! Maybe as middles?

Martin, Dominic, and Gabriel are awesome — some of my very favorites. But Martin’s an M name, so I did use it for inspiration, but I don’t consider it a real contender for them. Dominic and Gabriel seem to be going in just a little bit of a different direction than what they’ve done so far — they both seem a touch more exotic, perhaps — but they are great names and great saints, so I have no real quibble at all. (Although, now that I think about it … perhaps a quick look at my Gabriel B. post would be wise? It’s always good to have all the information.)

Okay! Here are my ideas/suggestions:

Girl
(1) Ruth, Rita, Rose/Rosa
So when you have seven other children, all with first and middle names, plus a list of names that you’ve decided you don’t hate, there are a LOT of names to work with. It makes finding patterns in the Baby Name Wizard a bit more challenging, but also a lot of fun and really satisfying. Ruth, Rita, and Rose/Rosa revealed themselves as style matches for the Borobias, and they all fit the rules so well. I’ve grouped them together because they all begin with R and they’re all four letters, but they each have their own merits. And as long as they don’t use Ursula as the middle, I think the possibility of potentially embarrassing initials is low.

Ruth is, of course, Ruth from the bible, also known as Ruth the Matriarch (and yes the Old Testament holy ones are considered saints). Ruth is one of the very best women in my opinion, for her love of her husband and her mother-in-law, never mind that she was one of the only women named in the genealogy of Jesus. I’ve been seriously crushing on Ruth recently, mostly because of Ruthie. So sweet!

Rita I’m kind of excited about for Dwija and her hubs because they like Margaret but Margaret repeats the M of Mary, which violates one of The Rules. But Rita can be considered a form of Margaret! It’s a short form via variants like Margarita, which makes it a St. Margaret name, and St. Rita is also an awesomely amazing saint in her own right (I’m privy to some amazing intercessory action on her part — great namesake for a little girl).

Rose was actually one of the first names I thought of when I was musing over the list of the already born Borobia children, such a lovely, simple name! St. Rose of Lima’s one of my faves, and it can also be a Marian name. Rosa is a great variant too, and adds an extra syllable if one syllable is considered too short, and Rosie is another of those darling nicknames.

(2) Hildi
I’ve been pushing Hildi on lots of people recently! Haha! St. Hildegard of Bingen, new Doctor of the Church, is the inspiration here. Hildegard still feels a little … much, to me, for most people, but I’m swoony over Hildi! I definitely think it can stand on its own as a first name, but Hilde and Hilda are variants that can work too. I don’t think Hildi/Hilde/Hilda would qualify as the disallowed “quirky,” but I admit I’m not 100% sure … (it also knocks Helen out for potential future use because of the H).

(3) Alice
I actually didn’t know that Alice was a saint’s name until doing this consultation. It seemed such a great fit for this family, but of course I had to make sure it was a saint’s name, and lo — there’s more than one! (Don’t be put off by the fact that none of those are listed as St. Alice — if you click on their names you’ll see they’re also known as Alice.)

(4) Frances
Lastly, Frances, fairly uncommon for a first name for a girl as far as I can tell, though Francis is all over the Catholic name stats for boys. Frannie and Frankie are sweet nicknames, and the full Frances is serious and bookish in all the best ways. Frances can be a nod to any of the Sts. Francis, but of course there are loads of female namesakes.

Boy
(1) Andrew, Thomas, Luke
Here are my New Testament Boys suggestions, chosen as much for the fact that they don’t repeat initials already used as for being a good fit with the first names Dwija and her hubs have already used for their boys: Paul, Nicholas, and John. I love each of these names for different reasons.

Andrew seems a really handsome, friendly name to me, and Andy and Drew are both really cheerful nicknames. I also had the privilege of hearing Fr. Andrew Apostoli speak this past weekend, and he referred to Andrew as his patron saint, which of course is obvious, but it made me sit up and take notice of Andrew a little bit more.

Thomas is great as the full Thomas, and even better — I assume Mr. Borobia is Thomas since he’s referred to as Tommy on the blog, so it’s a family name and even a Junior if so desired! Or, I know a grown-up Thomas who has initials TAB and goes by Tab — this could also be a possibility. I realize that Dad being Thomas could also work against this idea, and though I assumed the no-repeating-first-initials thing only applied to the kids, I realize it might also encompass D and T because of Mom and Dad.

And Luke — I’ve always loved that Luke’s gospel is considered the most Marian — it mentions Mary more than any of the others; it’s the one which the prayer the Magnificat comes from; and it presents Jesus’ genealogy that some believe goes through Mary rather than Joseph. So Luke can really be considered a Marian name for a boy, which I think is incredibly cool.

(2) Stephen, David
Okay so yes, I know, Stephen is a New Testament name, but I’m grouping it here with the Old Testament David because I know a couple of Stephen & David brother pairs, both older men in my own family and boys in my boys’ school, so they just seem like they go together, peas-and-carrots. Both names are those of beloveds in my family (we have Stephens and Davids that are not brothers as well as those that are), and each name projects a sense of the regal to me, probably because they’re both king’s names as well as saint’s names.

St. Stephen was the first martyr, which is a pretty great credential (and if Dwija and Mr. like the idea of Stephen, I’ve been digging the first-middle combo that Danielle Bean and her husband used: Stephen Matthias). St. Stephen of Hungary was a king, and also known as St. Stephen the Great. I love that! There were also a few Pope Stephens. It’s got some major Catholic cred.

David is King David, of course. I mean, come on. King David. There’s also a bunch of Sts. David too. (But D-Dwija and D-David?)

(3) William
Just kidding. 😀

(4) Henry
I suggested Hildi above and I’m suggesting Henry here and Dwija already said they’re mostly likely settled on Helen so maybe H isn’t the right direction for me to go, but I really love Henry. It’s a sweet name for a boy without being unmasculine, and I think Henry brings out my (admittedly fairly small but existing) contrarian streak because I really hate that some people say, “Henry is too Protestant.” This is totally one of those names that needs to be reclaimed because there are lots of holy Henrys! (And Hank’s a traditional nickname for Henry, and it’s been killing me with cuteness recently, can’t you picture a tiny Hank?!)

(5) Victor, Gregory
This is my Pope category. Victor is a papal name, and also a saint name (besides Pope Bl. Victor III), but my favorite way to think of it is as a Jesus name. We talk a lot about Marian names, but I haven’t heard much about Jesus names, and Victor can totally be considered one, because, as I told a mom in a consultation just recently, He wins! Victor! Victory!

Gregory is one of the Pope St. the Greats, and, as I’ve quoted here before, the Baby Name Wizard says, “Popes, saints, and Gregory Peck! Can a name get any more distinguished?”” I love that! “Greg” tends to be the problem with Gregory, if people have a problem with Gregory, but I’ve suggested both Rory and Gus (perhaps for Gregory Stephen?) as possible avoiding-Greg nicknames. I’m guessing Rory Borobia isn’t going to be a big hit, but Gus Borobia is suuuuper cute. 🙂

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? Do you think they’re hitting the right notes, or totally off key? What would you suggest for the new Borobia baby? (Remember the rules! Must not repeat initials, must not suggest B names, must not suggest quirky saints’ names, and absolutely no William!)

Baby name consultant: Baby #5 (boy #4): John Paul? Augustine? Matthew? Or … ?

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Keri and her husband are expecting their fifth baby, a boy! Their other kiddos are:

Keegan Thomas
Emma Claire (called “Emma Claire”; “I am thinking of officially adding “Therese” as her middle name and changing her first name to “Emma Claire” instead of just “Emma.” It was always our intent to call her Emma Claire, I just used Claire as a middle to give her flexibility which I now sort of regret. Seeing as how St. Therese is one of her special saints and she died on Emma Claire’s birthday, it seems fitting to add it to her name.”)
Evan Jacob
Andrew Paul

Great names, right? Strong, handsome names for the boys, and I love Emma Claire as a double first name.

Keri writes,

“We are Catholic converts. Through the years, as we have waded more deeply into the Church and its teachings, we have become more and more “Catholic” in our naming practices. I wish I had given Keegan a more “Catholic” name. St. Thomas the Apostle is his patron. St. Clare (along with St. Therese) is Emma Claire’s. Since “Evan” is a form of “John,” St. John the Baptist is his patron. Andrew has St. Andrew has a patron. Given that his birthday was close-ish to St. Andrew’s feast day and it was on our short list, it seemed like a winner.”

I just have to insert here that, though I know what Keri means about Keegan, I wanted to reassure her — behindthename.com says Keegan is “From an Irish surname, the Anglicized form of the Gaelic Mac Aodhagáin, which means “descendant of Aodhagán”. The given name Aodhagán is a double diminutive of AODH.” So I looked up Aodh, and it said Aodh has been traditionally anglicized as Hugh — and Hugh is a saint’s name! The saints with that name are often in the form of Hugo, but Hugh and Hugo are the same name, and New Advent even has an entry for St. Hugh the Great. So her Keegan Thomas can claim two wonderful saints for his own. ❤

Keri continues,

“My husband has lobbied for “John Paul” for every single boy and for some unknown reason, I have always rejected it. John Paul is now on our short list. We have also seriously considered “Augustine” (nn — “Gus”) but I am not quiiiiite sure I am so bold … If we go with John Paul, middle name would likely be “Augustine.” These are two very important saints to us, both heavy influences on my husband, in particular, in his conversion. In fact, John Paul is his confirmation name.”

Other names on their list include:

Benjamin
Alexander (“Alexander has been a runner-up for every boy we have. I really like “Alex” as a shortened version”)
Matthew (“just not sure it has that “zing” to it”)

And those they like but can’t use:

Nicholas
Thomas
Patrick

So my thoughts regarding their ideas: John Paul is a great name, a great saint, a great patron for a boy, and so awesome to have the connection to Keri’s husband through his Confirmation name! But I do feel I have to point out that they already have a John (Evan) and a Paul (Andrew’s middle name), and while those certainly aren’t deal breakers by any means — if they want to name their unborn son John Paul they should go right ahead and do so! With my full blessing! 😀 — it might also soothe them that they’ve already used John Paul, in a sense. It might help them feel freer to move on to a different choice for this little boy on the way, you know? (It’s worth noting that there’s certainly precedent for naming more than one baby after the same saint — Jenny Uebbing‘s got two little ones named for St. Maximilian Kolbe! And it works! And it’s totally fine and the sky didn’t come crashing down! Also, as Keri did note in a later email, “my friends convinced me that because they have two totally different patrons it was ok. 🙂 ” Yes indeed, I 100% agree.)

There are also other ways of working St. John Paul into a name, like by using a form of his pre-papal name Karol. I’ve seen a lot of families use Charles, Karl and Carl, Karol, Charlotte, Caroline and Karoline/a in honor of JP2 — Charles for a boy seems especially relevant right now.

Augustine is also an awesome name, but it does seem a little different in style than the other kids’ names — much heavier. John Paul can fit in I think without raising eyebrows, but Augustine would be a little more baffling. So I really like it in the middle name spot for this baby. However, if they were open to considering August, I think it fits in their naming style a bit more, and they could still use the nickname Gus. But I think what seems like it might fit even better is Austin — Austin is an old form of Augustine, a “medieval contracted form” of it, according to behindthename. A little Austin would legitimately be able to claim St. Augustine as his patron, and it’s certainly a less bold choice than Augustine. I quite like August John Paul, August Charles, Austin John Paul, or Austin Charles for this family (especially Austin), I love how both options allow them to honor both of the heavy influences on Keri’s husband’s conversion.

Benjamin, Alexander, Nicholas, Thomas, and Matthew are all really great, solid, biblical names — I’m particularly interested that Alexander was the runner up for every boy! That definitely says something … I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they have an Alexander some day, even if it’s not this particular boy. And Patrick echoes the Irishness of Keegan, so I can definitely see the appeal there. Overall, a great, solid list. I wonder, instead of Matthew, since Keri said she wasn’t sure if it has enough “zing,” if they might consider Matthias? It’s a more international form of Matthew and has a heavier biblical feel.

So those are my thoughts on the names Keri and her husband have been batting around, but I had a few other ideas that I thought might be worth considering:

(1) Kolbe or Bennett (et al.)
As a name nut (or “namiac,” as my mom calls me!), I really like to see sibling sets that have a balanced feel name-wise. This certainly is much less important than a lot of other factors, but when I first looked at Keri’s kids’ names, I really wanted to loop Keegan in somehow. Emma Claire, Evan, and Andrew can really hang together style-wise, while Keegan looks to be a little on the outside. It’s totally understandable that as they’ve grown in their faith they’ve drawn closer to the names of our faith (santa nomina), which is so great, and I really wanted to come up with a suggestion or two that would have more of the feeling that Keegan has, while being really Catholicky Catholic. Kolbe was the very first one that came to mind: It’s a last name, like Keegan started out as; it starts with K, which is aesthetically pleasing to me — just that alone makes Keegan make more sense within the context of his siblings’ names; and it has a really current sound — like Colby and Cody and Kobe — which Keegan also has. At the same time, St. Maximilian Kolbe is of course an amazing patron, and I’ve seen Kolbe used a lot by the heavy-duty Catholic families I know. I think Kolbe John Paul works fine, or Kolbe Augustine (wow that is a heavy hitting name!), or Kolbe Charles.

Another name in this vein that also seemed like it might work is Bennett. It too is a medieval form of a saint’s name — Benedict! And given that they’re considering Benjamin, Bennett is a really great option, since it allows for the nickname Ben.

Otherwise, it might be worth their while to look at lists of saints’ last names to see if any strike their fancy for a first name — there are two posts in particular here that have a lot of great ideas, both in my post and (mostly) in the comments: Last names as first names  and Baby name consultant: Not-so-normal Catholic names. I think this is a really great pool of names to draw from if Keri and her husband want to find a name that is more like Keegan stylistically.

(2) Luke (or Lucas) (nicknamed Lolek?)
Luke has the same great, solid, biblical pedigree that so many of Keri’s other favorites have. I’ve always loved that it’s a really Marian name for a boy — the gospel of Luke mentions Mary more than any of the others; it’s the one which the prayer the Magnificat comes from; and it presents Jesus’ genealogy that some believe goes through Mary rather than Joseph. Additionally, in the consultation I did for Jenny, because of her love of JP2 someone suggested Lolek as a nickname for Luke, which I thought was just inspired — Lolek was JP2’s childhood nickname! (That same commenter also said she knew of a little boy with Lolek as his middle name, so that’s an option too, for honoring JP2.)

There is the consideration that Keri’s last name is one syllable, and if that were problematic for her with a one-syllable first name, I’ll change my suggestion to Lucas. Lucas Karl and Lucas Augustine are striking me as particularly handsome.

(3) Jonathan or Justin (with a P middle name? For JP initials)
As you all know, I almost always start a consultation by looking up all the names — already-named kids and names on the list of considerations — in the Baby Name Wizard book as it lists, for each entry, names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. When I looked up all of Keri’s names, it was amazing to me how much overlap there was in her style — Alexander, Benjamin, Nicholas, Andrew, and Thomas routinely showed up — so I started noticing what other names were often linked with theirs. Jonathan was one of the names, and I immediately thought it might be a great option. I love that Jonathan has the John sound of John Paul, but it’s not actually a John name, so it doesn’t compete with Evan. Additionally, I thought if Keri and her husband paired it with a P middle name — Jonathan Patrick maybe? — they could call him JP, which of course are John Paul’s initials; of course, he’s routinely referred to as JP or JP2 or JPII, so it would be both obvious and subtle at the same time.

Justin isn’t tied to too much other than my gut feeling. My suggestion of Austin is what made me initially think of it — both the similar sound and feel they share, as well as the fact they’re both sort of “underground Catholic” — few people seem to know that Austin comes from Augustine, and few people seem to know that Justin Martyr was a heavy duty Church Father and therefore Justin is a heavy duty Catholic name. Justin feels similar to Evan to me, and it’s listed as similar to Matthew, so I thought it might hit the right notes. Similar to Jonathan, if it was paired with a P middle name, Keri’s little boy would have JP initials. I like Justin Patrick a lot.

(4) Christopher or Samuel
Christopher and Samuel were others that kept popping up as similar to other names Keri and her hubs like, especially Emma, Alexander, and Benjamin (Samuel), and Andrew, Nicholas, and Matthew (Christopher), so they definitely needed a mention. Chris and Sam are great boy nicknames.

(5) Nathaniel or Gabriel
Both Nathaniel and Gabriel were two others that had lots of overlap in the Baby Name Wizard for this family’s style, and they always kind of remind me of each other — their style is so similar, the big difference being (to me) that if you like longer names, Nathaniel fits the bill, and if you prefer shorter, Gabriel. Nathaniel was listed as similar to Benjamin, Nicholas, Alexander, and my idea for them of Samuel; Gabriel was listed as similar to Benjamin, Nathaniel, and my idea for them of Luke. Gabriel especially is often included in the Catholicky Catholic category, with his ties to Mary in the Annunciation.

So those are my ideas for Keri and her husband! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest for Keegan, Emma Claire, Evan, and Andrew’s little brother?

Rivers Family Baby Naming

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You guys. Do you remember the post I did about Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers’ baby #8, due soon? I ended by saying if anyone knows Philip or his wife Tiffany and wanted to pass on the post, I would be delighted? Well our lovely reader skimac was actually able to pass it on to them, and Tiffany wrote back.

Tiffany wrote back!!!!!!

((Trying not to squeal with excitement.))

(Maybe I squealed just a little. 🙂 )

I’m still blown away that (1) she read the post and (2) took the time (very near her due date!) to respond and (3) her response was just so beautiful! I know you’ll all love it! It was left here as a comment by a friend of her mother-in-law’s, but I wanted to post it so you’d all have a chance to read it:

Halle Elizabeth- Philip and I just loved the name Halle and when I was in mass while pregnant with her I noticed the song we were singing had Hallelujah in it and I took it as a sign 🙂

Elizabeth is Philips mom’s middle name and two of my favorite saints. Saint Elizabeth of Hungary and St Elizabeth Anne Seton. Although at the time I think we were just naming her after her grandmother 🙂

Caroline Leigh- we loved the name and her god mother’s name is Leigh Anne

Grace Marilyn- because I was in awe of Gods grace and his love for me. Marilyn- after Mary and my mom’s middle name

Philip Gunner- Philip obviously after his dad 🙂 and Gunner is Philips mom’s maiden name. Her parents had 9 children and passed down the Catholic faith in a very Protestant part of the world.

Sarah Katherine- Philip picked Sarah, he loved the name and I love Old Testament names 🙂 Katherine after my grandmother and st Katherine Drexel

Peter Michael- Peter is my brothers name, but we most of all love it because we both have a heart for the Protestants coming home to our faith and Peter symbolizes that for us… The rock

Michael- Philips middle name and the name of the one who has done much battle for us and all God’s children (St Michael the archangel )

Rebecca Marie- another Old Testament name we both loved. Marie after our mother Mary.

We are awaiting our next blessing, and plan on naming her Clare Magdalene (or Magdalen) not sure about the spelling, maybe you could help me decide 🙂

With all the opinions we have here in our house now, we finally came up with one everyone likes. And will name her after St Clare of Assisi. Magdalene because it reminds me again of God’s grace and no matter how far we fall from God he is always our Father and wants us home! Plus love that fact that she (Mary Magdalene) was at the cross.

Thanks for writing such a nice blog post about Philip 🙂 and you never know we may have to talk about some of your name suggestions- we have been known to change names last minute!!

In Christ,
Tiffany

How exquisitely beautiful are the reasons behind all these choices?! I love each and every one of them. I had my husband read it, and he — a convert himself — was so impressed by how Tiffany said they “both have a heart for the Protestants coming home to our faith.” Along that same line, I also loved the use of Philip’s mom’s maiden name, Gunner, because her “parents had 9 children and passed down the Catholic faith in a very Protestant part of the world.” Beautiful.

And now I think I’ve used up my quota of how many times I can say “beautiful” in one post!

I just have to point out one more thing — “Halle” is contained within “Hallelujah”!! I put that right up there in Master Class naming, I am very impressed with that! And like my sister-in-law said when she read it, now I have a new name to suggest!

(Also, I was totally way off about the Scandinavian influence I thought was revealed by Halle and Gunner. I love the real reasons so much more!)

Please say a prayer for Tiffany and her baby girl as the birth nears, asking especially for St. Anne’s intercession! I’ll be sure to post when I find out that the baby’s been born, and in the meantime — what would you suggest regarding the spelling of Magdalene or Magdalen? (My response, which I’d posted as a comment, was: “this is one instance where I don’t have much of a preference; I quite like both Magdalene and Magdalen. Mayyybe I’d tip toward Magdalene, just because that’s what I see most often when St. Mary Magdalene is written out, but really, I think either spelling quite obviously points out which saint they’re referring to.”)

Updated to add: I forgot to say! The choice of name for their new baby isn’t one I suggested (though I did reference Magdalene in my suggestion of Lena), but I love love love their plan of Clare Magdalen(e) for their new little one — saintly, elegant, just wonderful!

Baby name consultant: Saintly, nature-y name that follows the rules needed for Green Bean Baby #3

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Chelsea Anne (lucky girl, with our own St. Anne as a patron!) and her husband Timothy are expecting their third baby, gender unknown (green bean!). She writes,

“My husband and I wait until birth to find out the baby’s gender, so we are on the hunt for a boy’s name and a girl’s name.

Interestingly enough, my daughters were named before I was even considering reverting to Catholicism. Saints weren’t even remotely on my radar. And yet, there is that Catholic glimmer in both of their names! It seems like a sign to me that I am on the right path.”

Okay, you guys? This is one of the very reasons this blog has been such an amazing blessing to me — I get to read stories like this! The workings of the Holy Spirit can be evident even in baby naming.

Their girls are:

Celeste Marie (both family names; “I love that the name Celeste is rooted in Latin and that it is familiar in many languages. I love that it is ancient and somewhat rare. I also love that it reflects the natural world (the celestial, starry, heavenly, bodies).”)

Rosa Maeve (Rosa’s a family name and Maeve a tip of the hat to Chelsea’s Irish heritage; “Rosa’s first name is also familiar in many languages, as it has that Latin root. It is also somewhat rare (Rose is far more common). And it reflects the natural world (in the case, in Rosa’s earthiness!) I don’t even know how to explain her middle name, except to say that we were called to give her the name Maeve because of her mischievous wild temperament!“)

I could just die over both of their names. Sooo beautiful!

“I wasn’t consciously aware of the above patterns when they were born, but the commonalities I find between my daughter’s names are:

-Traditional, romantic
-Latin Root/familiar or accessible in many Western languages
-Have a Marian aspect (“Marie” and “Rosa”)
-Reflect the natural world in a very subtle way (in the above cases, the elements of Earth and Air)
-I tend to like “ethnic” sounding names
-My husband pointed out that both their middle names start with M and have five letters, which was unintentional but very noticeable to me now

The baby name wizard book describes both the names Celeste and Rosa as “womanly” which is very cool to me. I tend to like the idea of naming grown-up people rather than babies! … If I do have another girl, it would be cool to honor a Saint for her first or middle name, maybe include a subtle Marian aspect. I love rare, high-impact, somewhat intense, romantic, traditional names.

I also feel interested in honoring the sea with this child’s name, for some unknown reason … but thats not a rule.”

BUT … speaking of rules …:

“I do have a few pesky naming rules. The good news is that I am quite open-minded so you might get me to budge on some of these. Especially if the suggestion is really, really cool.

Rules
-I would prefer not to choose names (for either gender) that repeat the first initial (C, R)
-I would prefer not to choose names that repeat the ending of the name. In other words, I have always liked “Lucia”, but I feel that the “a” at the end of that name already belongs to my Rosa. When I call my children’s names outloud, I love the idea of their names having distinct endings. For Celeste, this is a non-issue. But if you eliminate girl’s names ending in the letter “a”, you definitely wipe out a lot of options.

My heritage is very important to me (especially because my children will receive my husband’s very common last name). I am Cuban/Spanish, Irish, German, Dutch. My husband’s ancestry is English, Irish, German … Because I am so new to Catholic naming, I am sure there are names out there that I am just not even aware of. I would love to find some new names (or reexamine names I have overlooked), particularly in the girl category!“

Some of their favorite names are:

Beatrix
Brigid
Margaret (but popularity is an issue)
Genevieve (ditto re: popularity)
Therese (“my husband cant seem to pronounce this tho…“)
Maris
Pearl (but used by a friend)
Luz

Padraig/Padraic Willem
Forrest/Forest Willem
Seamus Henry
Simon Henry
Duncan ___

And names from their family tree:

Ellen
Helen
Cullen
Anne
Ivo
Palma
Margaret
Patrick/Padraig
Willem
Bernadina
Magdelena
Edward
Catherine
Lillian
Molly
Maureen
Thomas
Francis
Arthur
Aloysius
Victor
Graciela
Luisa
Matthew/Mateo
Simon
Beatrice
Lucia
Grace
Lola
Olive
Henry
Nathaniel
Phineas
Samuel
Mabel
Muriel
Elisabeth
Edwin
Willard
Elias
Forrest
Everett
Pearl

A further note:

“I tend to really go for Irish boy names, as you can see by the list above. For boy’s, I also like the idea of using a name that is traditional, HANDSOME, hearty, possibly with a Latin root, that includes at least one nod to a Saint (in either the first name or the middle name). The only name on this list that reflects the natural world in any way is Forest, which is probably why it is the favorite of my farmer husband.”

Also, because I know you’ll all love it, Chelsea told me that getting feedback from me “is like having a name doula” — a name doula! I might just have to put that on my business card! 😀

Okay, first my thoughts about their current list:

Their girls choices are all great and lovely! It’s fun to see a mix of names I see a lot through the blog (Genevieve, Therese, Margaret) and those I’d love to see more often (Beatrix, Brigid, Maris, Pearl, Luz). I personally don’t think they can go wrong with any of them. I particularly like how Maris can fit into the five-letter-beginning-with-M pattern they already have for Celeste and Rosa’s middle names, and it’s Marian, and it’s related to the sea—it seems like they have a perfect middle name right there!

The boys names have a very different feel to me than the girl names, and I like them all. I’m particularly impressed with the super Irishy Irish Padraig/Padraic! AND I discovered recently that St. Patrick is the patron of organic gardening! Since Chelsea’s husband is a farmer, I thought that was particularly meaningful. I have an idea for a middle name for Duncan, which I’ll include in my suggestions below.

I had fun coming up with ideas for this family, because of all the rules! I love love a good name challenge! I always shoot for three, but I came up with so many ideas that I grouped them into five suggestions for each gender:

Girls

(1) Carmel
Aaaand right off the bat I’m breaking rules! But I’m hoping this might be one of those really, really cool suggestions that they don’t mind, especially since the C doesn’t make the same sound as Celeste. Carmel is for Our Lady of Mount Carmel—it comes from the Hebrew for “garden,” and is the name of a mountain in the Holy Land featured in the book of Kings (chapter eighteen). In this chapter, the prophet Elijah challenged King Ahab to call on his god Baal to start the fire of sacrifice, while Elijah would call on the Lord. “The God who answers with fire is God,” Elijah said, and “All the people answered, ‘Agreed!’” (1 Kings 18:24). Not surprisingly, Our Lord was victorious. Afterward, Elijah instructed his servant to look out to the sea from Mount Carmel and report what he saw there; six times the servant reported there was nothing to see, and Elijah sent him to look again. On the seventh time, the servant told Elijah, “There is a cloud as small as a man’s hand rising from the sea” (1 Kings 18:44).

This is the coolest part: Carmelite tradition holds that Elijah understood this cloud to be a symbol of the Virgin Mother who would bear the Messiah, as foretold in the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 7:14).

I’ve done a little research on it, and one place I found online explained, “When the servant of Elijah saw a small cloud rise from the sea, God revealed to Elijah that a certain child, Blessed Mary, symbolised by that cloud would be born of sinful human nature, symbolised by the sea.”

Tradition also suggests that, even in Old Testament times, a group of hermits followed in the example of Elijah by living on Mount Carmel and leading lives of contemplative prayer; praying, in fact, for the coming of the Virgin Mother. Then,

“On the Feast of Pentecost, the birthday of the Church, the spiritual descendants of [Elijah] and his followers came down from Mount Carmel. Fittingly, they were the first to accept the message of Christianity and to be baptized by the Apostles. When, at last, they were presented to Our Lady, and heard the sweetest words from Her lips, they were overcome with a sense of majesty and sanctity which they never forgot. Returning to their holy mountain, they erected the first chapel ever built in honour of the Blessed Virgin Mary. From that time devotion to God’s Mother was handed down by the hermits on Mount Carmel as a treasured spiritual legacy.” (source)

In the thirteenth century AD, so my favorite version of the story goes, the hermits left the mountain and went to Europe, where they received Papal approval for their Order, and became known as the “Brothers of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel,” or, the Carmelites. Later that same century, on July 16, 1251, Our Lady of Mount Carmel appeared to St. Simon Stock, a Carmelite, and gave him the Brown Scapular, promising, “‘This shall be the privilege for you and all Carmelites, that anyone dying in this habit shall not suffer eternal fire.’ In time, the Church extended this magnificent privilege to all the laity who are willing to be invested in the Brown Scapular of the Carmelites, and who perpetually wear it.”

So Carmel is Marian and related to the sea! I love it, I think it would be smashing for Chelsea if she has a little girl. If she hates the C, because of it repeating the first letter of Celeste’s name, behindthename.com says that the Hebrew word, when transliterated, becomes Karmel, which for some reason we then make Carmel, so Karmel would be a possibility. It also strikes me as Irishy and womanly, probably because the only Carmel I’ve met was a middle aged woman who ran a B&B in Dublin. Also, the Spanish version is Carmen, which they also might like because of their Spanish heritage.

(2) Hildi or Edith
It’s hard to follow Carmel with all its info! But I had immediately thought of Hildi when I was reading Chelsea Anne’s email. St. Hildegard of Bingen (who was famous for her writings and poetry and prophetic visions) was recently declared a Doctor of the Church, which is a big deal because she’s a woman (there are three other women: St. Teresa of Avila, St. Therese, and St. Catherine of Siena), and I know of a little girl named after her—I can’t remember if they named her the full Hildegard or just Hildi, but she goes by Hildi and I’m just head-over-heels in love with it. It’s so sweet! I definitely think Hildi stands on its own, despite technically being a nickname, and it fits all their naming rules. Another option, if they preferred a non-nickname name, is Hilde, which is the German and Dutch (their heritage!) version of Hilda, which is related to Hildegard, but Hilde is said the same as Hilda, so unfortunately there is the –a ending that’s already Rosa’s. (And I wasn’t sure if they didn’t want to repeat the ending sound of Celeste (T) or actual letter (E)? So there’s that too. Hildi gets around all of that.)

Hildi made me think of Edith, because of its Germanic-ness, and Edith is St. Edith Stein, whose religious name in life was St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross. She was a convert from Judaism and died in a concentration camp during WWII. She is awesome, and I’m seeing Edith get quite a bit of name love among Catholics recently. The nickname Edie is beyond adorable too. Both Hildi and Edith have a womanly feel to me, like Chelsea said she liked about the Baby Name Wizard’s description of Celeste and Rosa.

(3) Margo
Chelsea said she loves Margaret but its popularity is concerning—I think Margo’s a great alternative. It’s a variant of Margaret, and I think it can take all the Margaret nicknames if they wanted it to. The original Margot, of which Margo is a variant, is French, so the T is silent, but since they wanted to avoid repeat endings, I thought maybe the T was too close to the appearance of Celeste? Margaux is another acceptable spelling. Margaret also means “pearl” so using a Margaret variant would honor the Pearl in their family! Pearl can also be Marian (I blogged about it!), so Margo could be considered a very subtle Marian name. I also like that Margo is five letters starting with M, so if they didn’t care for it in the first name spot, they might like it in the middle. (I also wonder if they’d like the Irish form of Margaret, Mairead? It rhymes with parade.)

(4) Pilar or Belén
These two were inspired by all their rules and their Spanish heritage. I’m not sure if they’d be interested in a Spanish name, but I love both of these. Pilar is from a title of Our Lady, and under this title (María del Pilar) she was declared Patroness of Spain and of all Hispanic Peoples by St. John Paul II in 1984. Belén is the Spanish form of Bethlehem. Both gorgeous, meaningful names!

AND — ohmygoodness!!! — I didn’t know this until right this minute but TODAY is the feast of Our Lady of the Pillar/Nuestra Señora del Pilar!

(5) Verity or Amity
I did a little research in my BNW, looking for connections and overlap with the names that they’ve used and liked, and was following a path from Forrest to Mercy to Amity, which also made me think of Verity, which I’ve always liked—Amity means “friendship” and Verity means “truth” so they’re really great meaning names, AND they don’t break any of the rules!

Boy

(1) Elias or Elliott
I spotted Elias right away in their list of family names, because it’s one I’d already had in mind for them as I was reading the beginning of Chelsea’s email because of the Carmel connection—Elias is the Greek form of Elijah, so using it for a boy could be thought of as a nod to the sea and honoring Our Lady all in one. And it’s a family name for them! If Chelsea and her hubs didn’t like it as a first name, I thought it would be an amazing middle name for Duncan. Duncan Elias is so handsome! And Elliott actually originated as a diminutive of Elias, so they could use Elliott both as a connection to Carmel/Elijah and their family member named Elias.

(2) Declan
I thought Declan seemed a perfect addition to their list, based on their desire for “Irish, traditional, HANDSOME, hearty … includes at least one nod to a saint.” St. Declan was a contemporary of St. Patrick and is quite loved in Ardmore in Ireland. One of my cousins used it for her little boy, and I just love it.

(3) Nicholas, Brendan, Elmo/Erasmus
I wasn’t totally sure if their desire to honor the sea was also for boy’s names, or just girls? But I looked up patron saints of sailors, and St. Nicholas, St. Brendan (Irish!), and St. Elmo (also known as St. Erasmus) are all. All these names fit the rules as well.

(4) Isidore, George, Fiacre
I also looked up patron saints of farmers and similar, which is how I discovered that St. Patrick is the patron of organic gardening. There’s also St. Isidore, patron of farmers, which I’d known, and St. George is the patron of farmers, field workers, and shepherds, which I hadn’t known! And I thought they might be really intrigued by Fiacre—it’s the French form of the Irish Fiachra, and is the name of an Irish saint who settled in France—and he’s the patron of those who grow vegetables and medicinal plants, and of gardening in general. How cool! Now I know that each of these names has the same ending as Celeste, but I as I mentioned I was a little unclear as to whether they didn’t want to repeat her ending sound (T) or her ending letter (E), so I took a chance.

(5) Heath, Jasper, Timothy
When I was looking up names in my BNW, looking for connections and overlap with the names that they’ve used and liked, I found Heath as a brother name for Amity, and I immediately thought they might like it because of its nature connection. It originally meant someone who lived on a heath, sort of like an uncultivated field. Jasper was a brother name for Everett, which I was intrigued by from their family names, and I loved Jasper for them because it’s a kind of rock (nature!), and also one of the names traditionally assigned to one of the three Wise Men (Casper is a variant of Jasper, which is also sometimes given for that Wise Man). And Timothy! Chelsea’s husband’s name! I only recently discovered that timothy is hay! Or rather, it’s a kind of grass that is “widely grown for hay in the United States” (according to the dictionary). I don’t know if she or her hubs would like using his name as either a first or middle, but it’s pretty cool to have that nature/farm-y connection.

Whew! Those are all my ideas! What a mama of a post! What do you all think? What names would you suggest to Chelsea Anne and her husband for their little baby-on-the-way?

I love to do name consultations! If you’d like me to give your name dilemma a go, check out my Baby name consultant tab.

Baby name consultant: Little brother for Simon!

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , ,

Emily, from the blog Raising Barnes, and her husband are expecting their second baby and second boy! She writes,

“Despite my love of names, we are really struggling to come up with a name we both love. We have a few that we both are ok with, but I really want to find something to fall in love with. Does that make sense?“

Yes indeedy, it makes perfect sense! I know you all agree!

“It is important to us (especially me, as a convert) to have names rooted in our Catholic faith; there is so much awesome material there to work with! Also, it is important to me that my kid’s names aren’t super popular or trendy.”

Catholicky Catholic and not super popular or trendy — got it! 🙂

Their first son is:

Simon Matthew

Which I just love. Such a handsome combo. Emily says,

“We both fell in love with the name Simon early on. Matthew is my husband’s middle name and my father-in-law’s first name … I absolutely love his name, which is part of the reason we are having difficulties with baby #2.”

Names they’ve discussed include:

Maximilian
Sebastian
Blaise (“but I personally don’t like the double B (Blaise Barnes…)“)
Xavier (Emily’s frontrunner)
Miles (her husband’s frontrunner)
Eli (“a distant second place for both of us“)

The first thought I wanted to offer — and please, readers, chime in if you think I’m off base — is that as much sense as it makes that they want to find a name they love as much as Simon, and I fully 1000% agree they should try to do so, I do think that it’s hard to recreate the experience of choosing the most!amazing!name!that is my very favorite name ever! So sometimes, with such a high bar set, whatever ends up being the agreed-upon name might initially have a sort of “settling” or “compromise” feel to it. But I can almost guarantee that as time goes on and it becomes completely associated with one’s beloved baby, that name will become equally as loved as the first baby’s name. I hope that helps Emily and her husband not worry too much!

So: names on their current list. I love Maximilian and Sebastian both. They have a really sophisticated feel to me, but both pare down to really friendly nicknames — Maximilian can be Max or Mac; Sebastian can be Seb/Sebby or Bash (a la Grace Patton’s little guy); and I’ve actually seen Ian suggested as a nickname for both Maximilian and Sebastian.

I like Blaise a lot too, but I can see Emily’s point — Blaise Barnes could be really great and memorable, or it could come across as somewhat cartoonish. Totally their call. I think if they own it, with confidence, and infuse their son with that confidence, it would be totally fine. But if they can’t get comfortable with it or if it feels weird, probably best not to use it.

And Xavier! There’s a little Xavier in my life, and I just love his name. He goes by Xave or Xavey, which are so sweet, and the full Xavier oozes handsomeness too, I think. And there’s no cooler initial than X!

Miles is a recent favorite of mine too, but if it matters to Emily and her hubs (and it may not, and that’s of course totally fine), I don’t love the –s ending of Miles with the –s ending of Barnes. Miles Barnes. Nit picky stuff, but maybe helpful in whittling down options.

Eli is fun! And yet another different style … I feel like Simon + Maximilian/Sebastian/Xavier/Blaise reads “Catholic and only Catholic.” Simon + Miles has a more … pilgrim feel? And Simon + Eli is all biblical. I like each of those feels/styles, and Emily and her hubs certainly wouldn’t have to stick with whichever one went with the name they end up choosing for their little guy — they could have Simon, Miles, Eli, and Xavier someday, all in the same family, totally fine! I think they all work together, because they’re not really far apart stylistically — pilgrim basically IS biblical, and biblical is certainly Catholic. But it’s fun to see it pointed out I think.

As for popularity — here’s how they all broke down in 2014:

Simon: #231
Maximilian: #445
Sebastian: #34
Blaise: #845
Xavier: #88
Miles: #108
Eli: #49

I assumed Eli would be the most popular, and was totally shocked to see Sebastian’s actually the most popular! What?? I don’t know any in real life (though I see it talked about/considered a LOT among the families who read my blog). I know a lot of little Eli’s, so I wondered at first if I just live in an Eli pocket, but upon further thought I realized I think they’re all actually Elijah, and Elijah was #11 in 2014. #11! So that’s something for Emily and her hubs to consider, as there may be a bunch of Eli’s in their little guy’s class who are actually Elijah on the birth certificate.

Okay, on to my additional suggestions. As you all know, I usually start my consultations by looking through the Baby Name Wizard book — it has the amazing feature where it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in style/feel/popularity. It provides really great inspiration and good directions to go in. I looked up each of the names on Emily’s list (including Simon) and wrote down the boy suggestions for each one, and looked for any overlap. She and her husband have very consistent taste! Sebastian is similar to Maximilian, for example, and Xavier is similar to Blaise AND Maximilian AND Sebastian! I love seeing those kinds of things pop up. It all gave me good ideas for other options as well. I always shoot for three, but I had four ideas for Baby Boy Barnes:

(1) Oliver
Oliver was actually one that came to mind as soon as I started reading Emily’s email, before I’d done any research. While Simon is certainly super saintly and biblical, it usually has more of a bookish, Brit feel to me, which I love. Oliver has always struck me as similar. We discussed Oliver for our second boy, and very nearly named our third boy Oliver, so it’s long been a love of ours. We just haven’t felt it was “the one” for our boys just yet, but in considering it we looked up St. Oliver Plunkett, and he is a fabulous saint to have as a patron. But what really clinched it for me is that it was listed as similar to both Simon and Sebastian! Winner!

(2) Isaac
Isaac was another I’d scribbled down for Emily before cracking open my BNW book, so I was delighted to see it listed as similar to Simon and Miles. Isaac is super biblical, but to me it’s also St. Isaac Jogues — the Shrine of the North American Martyrs is near where I live, and he was martyred there. (It’s also the birthplace of St. Kateri.) Isaac’s such a cool name, I love it.

(3) Nathaniel or Gabriel
Nathaniel has that long, sophisticated feel that Maximilian and Sebastian have, and it’s biblical like Simon. And I always think of Nathaniel and Gabriel as having a similar feel — they always remind me of each other — and Gabriel was listed as similar to Xavier, and it’s also biblical. I love both choices for a brother to Simon.

(4) Colin/Cole or Kolbe
Colin was listed as similar to both Simon and Miles (as was Isaac), and it also made me think of Cole (both can claim a connection to Nicholas for saintliness), and Cole and Maximilian both made me think of Kolbe, which I see used with some frequency among Catholic families as a first or middle name. I love the idea of Kolbe, but I wonder if Kolbe Barnes might be too much B together? Or not? I was named Katherine Towne and always called Kate, and it wasn’t until I was grown up and considering how names sound together for my own boys that I realized Kate Towne does the thing I try to avoid — Kate ends in the –t sound and Towne starts with it, so it can sound like Kay Towne (and I’ve always hated when people mishear my name as Kay, but it makes so much more sense to me now than it did when I was growing up). My point being — sometimes us namiacs notice things that no one else does or cares about. I can’t imagine that anyone a little Kolbe B. would come in contact with would be like, “Can you believe they named him Kolbe Barnes?? So many B’s!!” So really, I don’t think it’s anything to be concerned about (if there was any concern to begin with). And Kolbe could take the nick Kole if desired, which is really pretty hip.

So those are my thoughts/ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for a little brother to Simon Matthew?

Mary’s genealogy; and Joachim and Eli

sanctanomina Naming nitty gritty , ,

While writing up the post about Jesus’ genealogy the other day, I started wondering about Mary’s. I found this article, which sort of blew my mind: Why isn’t Joachim mentioned in Jesus’ genealogy?

Basically, the idea is that the genealogy as listed in the Gospel of Matthew (the one I referred to in my Jesus’ genealogy post) is believed to be that of Joseph, which shows Jesus’ legal lineage, and his claim to the throne of David through his legal father. The genealogy presented in the Gospel of Luke, however, which is different than Matthew’s, is argued by some to be that of Mary, which shows Jesus’ natural lineage, and his claim to the throne of David through blood.

!!!!

One of things I found most fascinating is that some of the Church’s Big Thinkers argue that Mary and Joseph may have been first cousins. I’d never heard that before!

“Many of the Fathers maintained that Jacob and Heli [see below for more on Heli — he’s listed as Joseph’s father in Luke, as opposed to the Jacob listed in Matthew] were brothers and that, after Heli died childless (or, at least, without any sons), Jacob took Heli’s widow for his wife. Of her was born St. Joseph. Hence, according to the flesh, Joseph would be the son of Jacob only; but, according to legal right of inheritance, Joseph would be the son of Heli also. This explanation is certainly plausible, and enjoys the favor of many scholastic doctors as well (including St. Thomas Aquinas) …

If Heli is Joachim [see below for more on that], then we may presume that Joachim died without any sons. Joachim’s widow (presumably, a second wife other than St. Anne) would have married Jacob and bore him St. Joseph.”

So to answer the question posed in the article title, and alluded to in the quote above, another theory is that the Heli that’s listed as Joseph’s father in Luke actually refers to his father-in-law, Joachim:

“… we may follow the opinion of other scholars who maintained that Jacob (Joseph’s father) had died young and that Joseph became a quasi-adopted son of Heli/Joachim through his marriage to the Virgin – for this reason, then, Joseph is called son of Heli.

Whatever the intricate details, the central claim of this theory is that Joachim was called Heli and that this “nick-name” would have been common knowledge to those for whom St. Luke was writing. This opinion is said to have been held by St. Jerome, and is defended with great vigor by Fr. Cornelius a’ Lapide. It was a common opinion that enjoyed the favor of many scholars from at least the 1400s up through the early 1900s …

We argue that Heli and Joachim are linguistically related, such that it would be very natural for a single man to go by these two names. Joachim seems to be a variant form of Eliacim, which is abbreviated as Eli, a variant of Heli. Hence, though the two names may at first appear quite different, there is a great linguistic similarity between Heli and Joachim.

In any case, there are many persons in the New Testament who are called by multiple names: Nathanael is called Bartholomew, Thomas is called Didymus, Cleophas is called both Clepas and Alphaeus (though this last is more debatable), Salome is called Mary (her full name being Mary Salome), et c.”

This is the genealogy as listed in Luke 3:23-38:

[God] (those in brackets were not listed in Matthew — he starts with Abraham)
[Adam]
[Seth]
[Enos]
[Cainan]
[Mahalaleel]
[Jared]
[Enoch]
[Methuselah]
[Lamech]
[Noah]
[Shem]
[Arphaxad]
[Cainan]
[Shelah]
[Eber]
[Peleg]
[Reu]
[Serug]
[Nahor]
[Terah]
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Judah
Perez
Hezron
Arni (Ram in Matthew)
Admin (missing in Matthew — maybe this was an admin mistake when transcribing? 😀 )
Amminadab
Nahshon
Sala (Salmon in Matthew)
Boaz
Obed
Jesse
David
Nathan (this is where the Lucan genealogy splits off from Matthew’s)
Mattatha
Menna
Melea
Eliakim
Jonam
Joseph
Judah
Simeon
Levi
Matthat
Jorim
Eliezer
Joshua
Er
Elmadam
Cosam
Addi
Melchi
Neri
Shealtiel (and picks it back up again)
Zerubbabel
Rhesa (and diverges again)
Joanan
Joda
Josech
Semein
Mattathias
Maath
Naggai
Esli
Nahum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melchi
Levi
Matthat (despite the fact that Matthan is listed here in Matthew, and so I might have presumed it’s the same guy, the article I cite above says Matthan and Matthat are two different men)
Heli (Jacob listed as Joseph’s father in Luke)
Joseph

Also, St. Joseph is listed as eleven generations from Shealtiel in Matthew, while in Luke it’s twenty.

So interesting!

Another quick note about the possible Joachim/Heli connection — I’d only ever read the Behind the Name entry that says Joachim is a “Contracted form of JEHOIACHIN or JEHOIAKIM,” where Jehoiachin means “established by YAHWEH” in Hebrew, and Jehoiakim means “raised by YAHWEH.” This idea of it being “a variant form of Eliacim” was new to me, so I looked it up, and while I didn’t find that spelling I did find Eliakim, which means “God rises.” So indeed it does seem that Eliakim and Jehoiakim mean the same thing, or very nearly, and if it wasn’t for this bit of research today I never would have discovered that connection. What do you all think of Eliakim, possibly with the nickname Eli, OR Eli on its own, with the intention of it being a variant of Eliakim, as an honor name for Mary via her dad, as argued by the article cited above? Do you all find Eliakim/Eli more accessible than Joachim?