Baby name consultation: No. 5 tiebreaker’s coming tomorrow and needs a name!

Kelli and her husband are expecting their fifth baby and third boy! Her induction was originally scheduled for next week (and I planned to post this tomorrow) but she emailed tonight to let me know there’s been a change of plans and the little guy’s arriving tomorrow! They’re still eager for name feedback, so please share any ideas you have!

Baby Boy joins big sibs:

Abby Leigh (“Our first baby and named before my husband, Adam, and I were really religious and definitely not Catholic … we both liked it, and at the time did not like Abigail. We slightly regret now not having used the full version of the name. Our daughter (now 13) wishes we had used the full thing, and so sometimes she pretends like we did and we occasionally refer to her as Abigail to appease her. Leigh was always a name I loved, and the spelling I thought was just beautiful. My husband’s grandmother’s middle name is Lee, named after her mother’s maiden name, so it also just happened to fall in place nicely. We just lucked out that there is a Saint Abigail (biblical and alternate form of St Gobnait) so that her name doesn’t seem too strange with our other kids.”)

William Thomas (“My husband and I have different naming preferences, so every kid has been a bit of a compromise. I refused to use Thomas as a first name because I don’t really care for it too much. However, it is my husband’s middle name, his Dad’s name, his grandfather’s name, and his great grandfather’s name, so I was kind of stuck with it in some way or another. Since I didn’t like Thomas, I claimed full rights to first name choosing and it came down to Aaron or William. I just loved the way William Thomas sounded. Of course, now that we have converted, I am so glad my son has many wonderful saints he is named for by accident. We call him Will.”)

Aaron Matthew (“My husband has always loved this name, and since I picked the prior first name for our older son I gave him Aaron this go round. I liked the name well enough. We were considering conversion to the Catholic church at this point, so wanted biblical or saint names. We had a baby shower where his name was going to be Aaron Josiah and we had told the world this, but when he was born I realized we had completely messed up on the middle name. Took us more than a day to decide on his middle name, and it came down to Samuel or Matthew. My Great Uncle Sammy had just passed away a couple months before he was born, and Aaron’s godfather had a brother named Matthew who had passed away shortly before as well. We ended up going with Matthew because his godfather was not going to be having any more children, and we wanted to honor him and his brother by using the middle name Matthew.”)

Jessica Caeli (“We call her Jessa, and I completely won a battle for this name! I just knew this was supposed to be her name. However, my husband did not care for it, but he did like Jessica ok. A perfect compromise of Jessica for the first name and Jessa as a sweet nickname was doable with some middle name compromise as well. Adam has always wanted to use the name Kaylee for a first name, but I haven’t ever cared for it. I loved the name Caeli (pronounced Chay-lee) after the Regina Caeli, but Adam didn’t like its so we agreed to Caeli but pronounced Kaylee as the middle. We were a bit worried about Caeli being unsual compared to the other kids names, but we figured since it was the middle name we could squeak by and pull it off, especially since the pronunciation was more typical to non-Catholic family and friends. Fortunately it ended up being the perfect name for her and she’s just a doll.”)

Great names, right? A little bit eclectic, a little bit unexpected — I love them!

Kelli writes,

“We know this baby is a boy, but are having a terrible time finding names we like, agree on, or even feel at all “right”. We haven’t had any good ultrasound pictures of the face, which I think for me is throwing me off my game. We usually get an awesome picture of the sweet baby face, but this guy only wants to show us his er… other parts. So definitely a boy, but no cute little pictures of his nose or anything.

We realized that both of our boys happen to have middle names of apostles. We didn’t really do it on purpose, and since we are open to having more kids in the future, feel like our choice of middle name is really key for this baby. If we go with another apostle middle name we feel stuck for any future boys to have apostle middle names as well, but if we switch things up now than the first two can just be played off as coincidence and no big deal.

Adam doesn’t like calling kids by their middle names, so we can’t do a first name with the middle name being the nickname. The first name is the first name and what the kid will be known as, unless there is a shortened version of the first name that can be used, like Will and Jessa. I’ve tried to change his mind on this unsuccessfully.

All of our kids names are fairly traditional sounding, so we feel like we can’t go too far off and be crazy. We would like for it to somehow tie in to a saint name, biblical name, or something faith related for both the first and middle names, but it doesn’t have to be super exact either. It can be a little bit of a stretch. Usually we find names we like and see if there is some way it connects to the faith, rather than the other way around.

I also feel like going a bit nontraditional with Jessa’s middle name may have given us a bit of leeway in what we can do for naming this baby. Unusual first names might be ok, if it has a nice regular sounding nickname we could use (ex. Benedict but calling him Ben, although we don’t like that one).

I don’t like names to be too long. If its a long first name, I prefer a one or two syllable middle name so it doesn’t get too “mouthy”. It needs to be easy to yell across the house or whisper threateningly in public, lol. Shorter first names can pull off longer middle names, but I am hesitant to use a long middle name since we haven’t ever done it before. I would kind of like a first name that could have a one syllable nickname, so Will isn’t the only one who doesn’t have a two syllable first name.

Although we have 2 A names, we would also rather not use the same letters again. We are negotiable on that, but A names are definitely out for first name unless we have a good nickname to use that doesn’t start with A.

My husband wants to make sure the boys all have strong sounding names that are masculine, as he feels this is very important.

Popularity isn’t super important to us if we like the name.

You can see that I like a wider variety of names, and my husband is pretty picky based on the above lists, whereas I have more “criteria” that needs to be met. We have always managed to compromise before, but I guess by number 5 we are about out of ideas for that! I am sorry for all of these restrictions. I feel like we have given you an impossible task.”

(I LOVE impossible name tasks!! I love having lots of parameters to work within and criteria to satisfy, and while I often don’t hit the mark, sometimes I do, and in super-challenging cases any success is that much sweeter. 😁)

Names on their “maybe” list include:

David (“middle name only per husband“)
Philip (“was a top contender, but now we feel meh about it“)
Noah (“always comes up when choosing names, but never feels quite right. Also Adam had a friend in high school who passed away named Noah, so that’s another reason its often on the table. A distant cousin has two kids named Abby and Noah, so I feel using both the names they used, even though we don’t really know them“)
Joseph (“meh“)
Jacob (“Will wants us to use this desperately, but we don’t love it. However, another one of my husband’s friends who passed away was named Jacob, so it is often on our list as well“)
Nicholas
Andrew (“I love it and love the nickname Drew, but Adam only likes it for a middle name, if that“)
Zachary (“another name that always comes up but has never stuck. Husband is pushing for this one, but the nickname “Zach/Zac/Zack” feels a little too harsh for me for this baby“)
Gregory (“middle name only per husband“)

Names they’ve discussed but have crossed off the list for various reasons:

Gideon, Titus, Soren (“we like them but they seem too far off from our other kids names to pull off“)
Martin “Marty”, Colm (Cull-um), Owen, Seamus, Nolan, Reid, Dean, Becket, Killian, Evan (“names I liked but my husband despised“)
Kealan, Kevin, Caleb, Travis, Brian, Patrick, Michael, Robert, Kieran, Luke, Jeffrey, Easton, Hendrix, Eric, Kolbe, Daniel, Stephen (used by close family/friends)

“We also considered Sheen as a middle name because we didn’t like Fulton but I LOVE Fulton Sheen, but my husband thought it was a bit crazy to make a boy sound so shiny.”

Alrighty, so first off—I LOVE their older kiddos’ names!! I have a real soft spot for Jessa and Caeli—Jessa really makes Jessica sparkle, and Caeli is Catholicky Catholic but putting it in the middle spot and using the Kaylee pronunciation makes it so much easier for everyone who’s not into hardcore catacomb-y names. Great job!

I’m also loving the fact that they call their Abby “Abigail” sometimes. I’ve often thought that bestowing a name that’s traditionally been a nickname—like Abby, Maggie, Jack—could legitimately allow the child to claim Abigail/Margaret/John as their own (just like they can claim St. Abigail/St. Margaret/St. John as their own). (I’m glad they only have “slight” regret—Abby Leigh is a beautiful name! And it sounds like it was pretty representative of where they were as a couple at the time, which can be kind of fun to remember.)

I have a few thoughts about the names Kelli and her hubs are considering:

David, Gregory: David’s a great, solid name, and really similar in style to their other kids’ names. A great middle name choice, and great faith associations (the biblical king of course, and also the patron saint of Wales). I also think it’s relatively easy to pair with a variety of first names. Gregory’s another great one—papal and saintly (Pope St. Gregory the Great!) and so handsome. A short first name would pair really well with Gregory as a middle, like Noah Gregory.

Philip: so interesting that it was a top choice and now they’re waning on it! It’s one of my faves too. I know that the possibility of Phil (or Philly for a little guy) turns some people off of Philip, but I think Pip/Pippin, Flip, and Finn are all viable options.

Noah: So interesting that they have relatives with an Abby and a Noah! Our neighbors’ two kids are Abby and Noah as well! They definitely go together. My only hesitation with Noah (though for some reason not so much with any of their other biblical name ideas) is that it’s SO biblical, which leaves William out of the brothers’ name style (and technically out of the whole sibset, since Jessica’s also a biblical name, though I think few people know that, so Jessica doesn’t come across as biblical at all).

Joseph: love it, such a great name and a great saint. But being “meh” says to me, “Keep looking!” Also, it repeats Jessa’s J.

Jacob: funny enough, even though Jacob is just as biblical/Old Testament as Noah, and just as popular secularly as Noah, I just don’t think of it in quite the same way as Noah. This could be weirdness on my part—maybe people would still see William as the odd man out if Jacob was used? It’s so cute that Will loves the name Jacob so much. But, a J name.

Nicholas, Andrew, Zachary: these are such solid, cool-boy names to me (in a good way!). They’re all biblical, but I don’t think most people think of Nicholas and Zachary as biblical, and Andrew’s so classic and has that Brit vibe (via its ultra Scottish connections) that I think it goes really well with William while looping Aaron in via biblical. But Kelli said no more A names, so at least for this baby, I’d probably cross Andrew off the list (or use as a middle, as Kelli said). Nick and Zach/Zac/Zack are so similar in sound (and Jake too, for that matter) that at least from a nickname perspective, I think they’re all pretty equal and great. I do feel like Nicholas feels a bit more … timeless? Classic? While Zachary feels a bit more modern, which is funny since they’re both equally ancient. I looked up their stats on the Social Security web site and was interested to see that Zachary didn’t break into the top 200 until the 70s, while Nicholas has been in the top 200 for as long as the SSA has been keeping stats. However, they both had a peak of popularity in the 90s (Nicholas at #5 in 1999; Zachary at #12 in 1994) and they’re currently still in the top 100 at #62 and #88 (Nicholas and Zachary, respectively). So I’m thinking of Nicholas/Nick and Zachary/Zach as pretty similar options for this family, and both great. But Kelli doesn’t seem thrilled about either one, so let’s keep looking.

Gideon, Titus, Soren: love these names! But I agree that they’re very different from the other kiddos. Maybe as middle names? I personally love using John for a boy the way that Mary’s used for a girl—putting John or Mary in front of any name gives the whole thing a Catholic spin, and both John and Mary can serve as the first part of a double name (where both first and middle names are always used together) or—as Kelli has tried unsuccessfully to convince her husband of—as a “reverse middle name” almost, where the child goes by the middle name. Does that make sense? I mean, anyone can go by their middle name no matter what their first name, but Mary has traditional usage that way (all of my dad’s first cousins who are women, for example, are Mary___, and they all go by their middle names), and so does John in my family. So John Gideon, John Titus, and John Soren all strike me as really really handsome, and they could call him John Gideon as a full name, for example, or just John/Jack, or just Gideon. However, all that said, I do understand if Kelli’s husband simply can’t be swayed to the going-by-one’s-middle-name idea. In which case I still like the idea of John____ and going by the double name or just John/Johnny/Jack. They could even do Jake as a nickname for John—it’s got fairly traditional usage that way, and gets in Will’s love of Jacob without doing Jacob. (But John’s a J name.)

Martin/Marty, Colm, Owen, Seamus, Nolan, Reid, Dean, Becket, Killian, Evan: I love these names! I’m really interested in Kelli’s Irishy sensibility here … I feel like William and Andrew are on the outskirts of it (having good Brit/Scot usage), and I tried to take it into account when coming up with new ideas for them (Owen was actually one of my frontrunners for them until I looked back at this list and realized Owen was already on it!).

I’m dying over Kelli’s husband saying Sheen as a middle “was a bit crazy to make a boy sound so shiny”! Haha! I can see what he means (especially since he has a preference for strong, masculine-sounding names). I also think their method of finding a name they like and backing into a patron saint from there is fine and legit, and a method I’ve used myself quite happily (and I wrote about here).

Okay! So on to my ideas for Kelli’s little boy! As you all know, I almost always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents have already used and those they like in the Baby Name Wizard as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity. For this consultation, I also used entered all the kids’ names (as a group) on Nymbler to see what its suggestions for a brother for the sibset as a whole would be. Based on all that, and some of my own ideas, these are my suggestions:

(1) Samuel
As soon as I saw that they’d considered Samuel as a middle name for Aaron, after Kelli’s Great Uncle Sammy, I scribbled it down as a first name idea for them. It’s obviously biblical like Abby/Abigail and Aaron, but classic and gentlemanly like William, and it has the awesome nicknames Sam, which is one syllable like Will, or Sammy, which nods even more closely to Kelli’s great uncle, and both Sam and Sammy are great with Jessa. I think it’s a great option for this little guy!

(2) Jared (or Gerard?)
I really tried not to duplicate first initials, but I have two J names (the other’s below) that I had to suggest (besides John, mentioned above). Jared seemed a great fit for this family to me—like Jessica, it too is biblical though I don’t think a lot of people know that, which also makes it a nice fit for Will. Another option, if they like the sound of the name but not the repeated J, is Gerard, and this is a weird suggestion because in American English Jared and Gerard don’t sound alike at all—I’m tapping into Kelli’s love of Irishy names in the sense that in British English and Irish English, Gerard has the stress on the first syllable like Jared (and like Gerald), so they end up sounding very similar. (Bernard is similar—we say ber-NARD, but remember that the character in Four Weddings and a Funeral [set in England] was BER-nerd.) I had an Irish friend ages ago named Gerard, and it sounded exactly like Jared when he said his name; I understand actor Gerard Butler says his name the same way. This idea of course is fraught with issues—the explanations they’d have to constantly give might become a real headache—but for the right family it could make perfect sense. And William, Aaron, and Gerard make a very sophisticated set of brothers!

(3) Garrett
Jared and Gerard made me think of Garrett, which I’m definitely interested in for Kelli and her hubs. It’s got a Celtic feel as well as a surnamey feel (given that it actually got its start as a surname, which was derived, funny enough, from Gerald or Gerard), and as such it reminds me of Nolan, Reid, Dean, and especially Becket from her list. I love the idea of brothers William, Aaron, and Garrett—so handsome!

(4) James
This is the other J name I had to suggest. Jacob made me think of it, since James is the Latin form of Jacob, and as such Jake is possible as a not-unheard-of and understandable (to those who know) nickname for James. (Pairing James with a K middle name, like James Kenneth or James Kolbe, makes Jake make even more sense.) I should also mention that I’m a little hung up on Jake for them because of Jacob being on their list and Will being “desperate” for it, as well as the fact that Jake is a style match for Abby and Drew and similar in sound to Nick and Zach on their list.

(5) Gabriel
Gabriel’s a style match for Abigail and Noah, and Gabe’s a similar friendly+masculine+one-syllable nickname like Will, Nick, Zach, Drew, Sam, and Jake. It’s biblical like Aaron, and Irish actor Gabriel Byrne gives it a shot of green that Kelli might like. It’s also got a little more of an obviously Catholic feel I think than the other kids’ names, which ties it in nicely with Caeli. It’s actually got a sort of similar popularity arc as Nicholas and Zachary—not as steep a rise as Zachary, not as consistent as Nicholas, but otherwise pretty similar, though perhaps a few years behind—it’s currently where Nicholas and Zachary were a few years ago (it was #22 in 2015).

(6) Ethan
Ethan was inspired by Evan on Kelli’s list of names she likes that her hubby doesn’t (sometimes similar-but-different makes all the difference!), as well as the fact that it’s biblical and a style match for Abigail, Noah, Jacob, Zachary, and Owen. It covers a lot of bases!

(7) Brandon
Brandon was listed as a style match for Jessica, and as soon as I saw it I knew I had to suggest it. It has an Irishy feel to me, like Colm, Owen, Seamus, Nolan, and Killian from Kelli’s list, because of its similarity to Brendan; it’s also a surname like Nolan, Reid, Dean, and Becket. As a surname, it calls to mind the wonderful Col. Brandon from Sense and Sensibility, which makes me think it’s a fantastic match for William with a Britishy feel.

(8) Ryan
Ryan was another one inspired by Jessica (a style match per the BNW) as well as the Irishy surnamey names Kelli likes. I did a spotlight on it a while back at the request of a reader to find some faith connections for it, and it’s since became a favorite of mine because of what I was able to find. I really like it with the other kids’ names.

(9) Henry
Henry is a style match for William and Joseph per the BNW, and it’s such a sweet yet exclusively masculine name with lots of great saint connections that I had to suggest it. If they wanted a one-syllable nickname like Will, they could do Hank, which is beyond adorable on a little guy!

(10) Miles
My last idea is Miles, for a few different reasons: it’s surnamey like Brandon and Ryan and the similar names Kelli likes; it’s one syllable (ish … depending on how you say it, it can sound like one-and-a-half syllables, which I think makes it a good match for the length of Will and the rest of the kids as well); and it’s got an ah-MAZ-ing Irish connection that I continue to be swoony about: it’s used as the Anglicization of the Old Irish masculine name Maolmhuire, which means, literally, “servant of the Virgin Mary.” A legit Marian name for a boy! I’ve also seen it possibly connected in origin to Michael, which opens up the possibility of St. Michael as a patron.

I also had a few names I considered suggesting and ultimately decided not to for various reasons, but I thought I’d list them here just in case: Isaac, Kenneth, Tobias. Also, Kelli’s comment about Benedict nicknamed Ben made me wonder if they might like to consider Benjamin or Bennett instead? Since she said they don’t care for Benedict, I wasn’t sure enough about Ben- names in general to include them in my official suggestions, but I couldn’t not mention Benjamin or Bennett just in case.

And those are all my ideas for Kelli and her husband! What do you all think? What would you suggest for Abby, Will, Aaron, and Jessa’s little brother? (And prayers for Kelli and the baby during tomorrow’s birth!)

Baby name consultation: No. 5 green bean 🌱 — solid, saintly, no nicknames

January 2, 2017 sanctanomina Baby name consultant Adoption, Biblical names, Mary, Nicknames, Papal names

I hope you all had a wonderful New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day/Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God!

Vanessa and her husband are hoping for baby No. 5! Vanessa writes,

“My husband David & I have a unique situation in that we’ve adopted our 4 children. We’re on “the list” again and there’s no telling when (or if!) our next little one might arrive. We could receive a phone call next week, in 3 months, in 2 years or not at all (you get the picture!)…Also, we have no idea if we’d be adopting another boy or another girl next time as we are not able to specify a preference.”

A new little one will join big sibs:

Nicholas Benedict (“his birthmom chose his first name Nicholas but we changed his middle name to Benedict. We LOVED the name Nicholas but had never considered it as a first name – when he was already named Nicholas, we immediately loved it! (As it turns out, he inherited much generosity from his namesake, St. Nicholas!) We received the call about our son when Pope Benedict was in the US for his historic visit in 2008. We decided while watching the news coverage to pray to St Benedict for his intercession and at that point decided if it worked out, we would change his middle name to Benedict. Of course, the rest is history!“)

John Paul (“we gave him this name after St Pope John Paul. We had always loved and admired the beloved Pope and we wanted our son to have a wonderful saint and holy Pope to look up to. Of course, John is very loving, just like the beloved Pope was.”)

Mark Thomas (“we gave him this name after St Mark and St Thomas More. We chose Mark because we met his birthmom on the feast day of St Mark (April 25). We have always loved and admired the fortitude and perseverance of St Thomas More and we loved the idea of using this name. Ironically, Mark’s birthday is the birthday of St Pope John Paul and he came home to us on July 11, the feast day of St Benedict! Clearly, he was born to be our child – God knew he would be in our family!!“)

Mary Catherine (“we gave her this name after Our Lady and also after St Catherine Laboure. We have always loved the miraculous medal and we loved the name Catherine. Mary was born on the sixth anniversary of the day Nicholas came home to us! (It was even a Thursday, just like in 2008!) Also, she came home to us on 5/19/2014, the day after Mark’s 2nd birthday.”)

What wonderful names! And the name stories! I totally had goosebumps reading all the fun and amazing details!

Vanessa and David have several naming rules/considerations:

1. We don’t really like nicknames for our children. With the exception of Nicholas, our other children’s names can’t really be shortened. This was intentional. We also call Nicholas by his full name as often as possible. We hope he’ll always be “Nicholas.”
2. We definitely want our children to have saints or biblical names so they know WHO they were named after and who they can learn about to look up to and admire.
3. We haven’t ever really considered any names that are trendy or too unique or too far “out there.”
4. We love to consider saints’ feast days for any special or noteworthy days around the birth, placement, birthparent meetings, etc. Since we have no idea when or if a child may come to us, this happens along the way if a match happens.
5. For a boy, we want the name to be a “strong” name – nothing too trendy or weak/feminine sounding. Also, nothing that could pass as a girl name and vice versa for a girl. (No unisex names!)

Some boy names they’ve considered include:

Andrew (“we don’t really love “Andy” or “Drew” so we have shied away from using this name, although it’s still a possibility“)
David (“this is a strong contender if next child is a boy. He would be named after his dad and luckily, there’s a St David! We could use this as a middle name or a first name“)
Christopher (“perhaps for a middle name, but this name doesn’t really work as a first name with our last name (since it starts with “S”)“)
Dominic (“David LOVES this name (and I do too) BUT I’ve always thought it was too close to “Nicholas.” I have always thought this could not be used because of our Nicholas. We love that St Dominic received the rosary from Our Lady“)
Anthony (“We love this name but we do NOT like “Tony.”“)
Joseph (“David loves this name (St Joseph) but see below (nephews). For me, I would think perhaps a middle name, if anything“)

“We have 4 nephews: James Michael, Michael Charles, Joseph Brian, Jack David. While my husband David disagrees, I feel we should NOT use any of the first names as a first name for our child. He would strongly consider Michael and Joseph but I would prefer these for a middle name, if at all. After all, these nephews are HIS brother’s children, so they would then have the same first AND last name.”

And names they’ve considered for girls include:

Veronica (“my ABSOLUTE favorite girl name – Mary was almost Veronica, but we felt strongly we wanted to name our daughter after Our Lady, and I didn’t want to “waste” Veronica on a middle name, just in case we ever had another daughter! We love how Veronica wiped the face of Jesus in the Stations of the Cross – what compassion! What a beautiful image (pun intended!)“)
Monica (“I love this name – LOVE St Monica, mother of St Augustine“)
Anna (“I have always loved this name. Love how Anna is the woman with Simeon when the baby Jesus is presented in the temple“)
Therese (“We LOVE St Therese of Lisieux but NOT a fan of “Terry” – also the “s” or “z” sound at the end of any name isn’t great with our last name since it begins with “S.” I think this one is out although it could be a middle name“)

“My mother and mother in law both have the middle name “Ann(e).”
My MIL’s name is Ruth and we had a reading from Ruth in our wedding (our favorite verse!). It’s even engraved in my engagement band {“Ruth 1:16-17”}. For these reasons, I could see using Ruth as a middle name.

Recently, especially after reading your post from Lindsay at My Child I Love You, I’ve been thinking Clairvaux or Zelie would be a good name for a girl, although they both go against our past idea that we don’t want anything too unique. While these are definite Catholic references/saints, I think they might be too “out there” for my husband. If I ever won this one, I’d be surprised! Although Zelie could be a fun middle name?“

I loved working on this! Regarding the names Vanessa and David have on their list of considerations, first I have to say (which you all already know) that I almost always start a consultation by looking up in the Baby Name Wizard the names the parents have already used and those they like as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity. So I had to laugh when I was looking up the names on this family’s list — they’re all style matches for each other! They have very consistent taste!

So I love all their boy ideas. I do think Andrew and Anthony could be “just Andrew/Anthony” if they stuck with it, like they do with Nicholas. David also — I know a couple little Davids, and they all go by just David, never Dave/Davy, etc. In fact, I think these days people are much less likely to automatically nickname a child who’s been introduced as a formal name. So all that works in their favor!

As far as Christopher — yes, I can see why they’d prefer it to be in the middle spot because of having an S last name, but I also don’t think it’s the worst thing ever.

Re: Dominic being too similar to Nicholas — on the one hand, I can see what Vanessa means, especially with Nic(k) being common enough nicknames for both. But, on the other hand, Veronica and Monica both have the “nic” within them, and Nicky is a common enough nickname for Veronica, so I don’t see any reason for Dominic to be dropped from the list if Veronica and/or Monica stays on it. However, that said, I suspect that Nicholas, Dominic, and Veronica/Monica might be too much “nic” for one family, and since Veronica is Vanessa’s favorite girl name, maybe Dominic should bow out. But then, maybe they won’t have another girl? Gah! It’s a hard one to figure out! I am sure, though, that Veronica and Monica are too rhymey for sisters.

Of the girl names on their list, I think that (besides Veronica), Anna/Anne is one of their best options, since Anne can’t be shortened and I don’t think Annas really ever get shortened either. Both are gorgeous names and really fit their style (according to the BNW). I love Ruth too, and it would be unexpected as a middle name, which I love.

I totally get their feelings on Therese, like Christopher, and though I think Tess is more likely than Terry these days, that doesn’t solve the problem of running into the S last name. It would definitely make a great middle name for them though, beautiful! I’m loving the idea of Anna Therese or Veronica Therese.

And Clairvaux and Zelie! I’m so surprised by them both! They’re both great, and I could see them both as a middle name as well. Anna Clairvaux … Veronica Zelie … they totally work!

Okay! So I came up with a bunch more ideas for Vanessa and David, and while I leaned heavily on the BNW for ideas of names that they might like, I also paid a lot of attention to names that don’t nickname easily:

Girl
(1) Clare/Claire
I was going to suggest Clare/Claire anyway, because of its non-nickname-ability, and when I read that Vanessa likes Clairvaux I thought aha! It totally fits the style of their other kids!

(2) Lucy
Lucy is just one of the sweetest names, and isn’t very nicknameable — I love it for this family!

(3) Rose
This is such a sweet one-syllable name — Marian and traditional with a little vintage feel!

(4) Helen(a)
I’ve been seeing Helen and Helena getting a good amount of love lately, and I don’t think most people would think to nickname a Helen (though Nell can be used if one wanted to use a nickname for Helen; Helena can shorten to Lena or I think Nell could work there too, but the one Helena I know in real life has always only been Helena). Dwija from the blog House Unseen, Life Unscripted named her youngest Helen Margaret, so cute!

(5) Hildi
I think lots more people would name their daughters after St. Hildegard of Bingen if her first name wasn’t so clunky! But I do know one little girl who is named after her and goes by Hildi and I just die over how sweet it is! I would totally do *just Hildi*, and I’m loving the idea of Hildi Ruth — I kind of love how antique that combo sounds!

(6) Sara(h)
Sarah was actually a huge style match for this family according to the BNW and since it doesn’t really reduce down I thought it definitely deserved a mention. There’s a St. Sara of Antioch (feast day April 20), and Sarah the Matriarch of course.

(7) Natalie
Natalie and Natalia both did quite well for Vanessa and David in my research as well! I thought Natalie was more their speed than Natalia, and though it can nickname to Nat, all the Natalies I know go by the full Natalie. I also love its meaning — it literally refers to Christmas Day (from the Latin natale domini — “the birth of the Lord”).

(8) Julia
I thought Julia was another name that would be a good fit for them style-wise and also because the Julias I know all go by the full Julia, never Julie/Jules. A lovely, regal name!

Boy
(1) Jude
I actually don’t think that Jude is their speed — it has a bit of a hipster feel to me, which I love, but I think their taste skews more classic (not that Jude isn’t a classic — you know what I mean!). But being one syllable, I thought it deserved a mention!

(2) Blaise
As with Jude, I’m not sure they’ll love Blaise, but it’s one syllable and super saintly, so maybe!

(3) Stephen
I was actually inspired by David to suggest Stephen for Vanessa and David — it has a similar feel to me as their other kiddos — classic, handsome, saintly — and I know two Davids who have brothers named Stephen! And they all go by the full Stephen, not Steve/Stevie.

(4) George
I think George might be my favorite idea for this family! Between St. George and Pope Francis (born Jorge [Spanish for George]), and with two other boys being named after recent Popes, it’s a great pick for a little Catholic boy!

(5) Henry
I think Henry is just one of the sweetest names for a little boy! There are so many great Sts. Henry to choose from, and no obvious nickname! (Hank, yes, but not terribly obvious just from hearing Henry.)

(6) Adam
I feel like this suggestion seems a little out of left field, but when I saw Adam as a style match for Christopher I thought they might like it! It hasn’t got any nicknames, and there are a bunch of holy Adams (which I was surprised to discover!).

(7) Robert
Robert is a pretty big style match for this family, and I’ve been loving it recently — it’s so solid and handsome, and I love hearing it in Downton Abbey. 😁 It’s probably in the same category as Stephen and Nicholas — Vanessa and David would have to actively make sure that no one shortens it. St. Robert Bellarmine’s great!

(8) Peter
Like Robert, Peter did really well for them in my research; like Robert, they’d have to make sure no one shortens it to Pete/Petey. But otherwise I love it for them!

And those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What names would you suggest for the little brother or sister of Nicholas, John, Mark, and Mary?

Celebrity guest: Kate Wicker, author & speaker

December 8, 2016December 8, 2016 sanctanomina Personal stories, Real-life naming Awesome initials, Biblical names, Catholic baby names, Kate Wicker, Nicknames

Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception!! What a beautiful feast day, one of my favorites! Feast days are celebration days, and I’ve got a lovely treat for you all today! 💕🎁

I’ve “known” Kate Wicker through her blog for years — her oldest and mine are just about the same age, and she and I had babies at roughly the same pace, and she’s a writer like me (though far more accomplished, being that she’s the health columnist for Catholic Digest and has written for numerous regional and national media, including Atlanta Parent, Catholic Exchange, CatholicMom.com, Catholic News Agency, Children’s Ministry Magazine, Crisis Magazine, Family Fun, Fathers For Good, Pregnancy, Pittsburgh Parent, WhattoExpect.com, and Woman’s Day. She’s also a monthly guest on Relevant Radio’s Morning Air Show, has appeared in Danielle Bean’s Momnipotent DVD series, and has been a guest on the Faith & Family LIVE and Among Women podcasts, Huffington Post Live (known as HuffPost Live), Kresta in the Afternoon radio show, and EWTN’s Son Rise Morning Show among others. Whew! 💃), so I’ve felt a kinship with her in the way that fangirls do with their mom/blogging heroes. 😍😍😍

Then she went a wrote a book (Weightless: Making Peace With Your Body, informed by her own struggles with a clinical eating disorder and written from a Catholic perspective), and she’s got a new one coming out soon (Getting Past Perfect: How to Find Joy and Grace in the Messiness of Motherhood, which I’m currently working on a review of [spoiler: it’s amazing!]; it’s available for pre-order here), AND — she’s got a new baby on the way!

Yes! A new baby! A boy! Her little guy joins three big sisters and a big brother, and Kate graciously humored me when I asked if she would mind sharing a little about the hows and whys of her kiddos’ amazing names, as well as any thoughts she and her husband have about naming the new baby. I know you’ll love all of what she has to say!

family-photo-2016

(This photo was taken when Kate had just found out No. 5 was on the way!)

I’m a gestating machine at 36 weeks pregnant with baby number five. This one is our second boy and since we already have three girls, you’d think we’d have bountiful selection of boy monikers. However, my husband and I both struggle far more with coming up with names for the XY chromosome set than the girls. Our children’s names are all very classic, so we’ve joked that maybe we will throw everyone for a loop and slap on some eccentric name like Mango (to Gwyneth’s Apple) or Blade for this little one!

With our last baby, we didn’t find out the gender until birth. After three girls, I assumed we would be adding some more sugar and spice to our family (if truth be told, all of my kids add more spice than straight-up sweet sugar to my life). I had a whole list of girls’ names to choose from (Jane Clare being a top contender), but we had only one boy name chosen: Thomas Kemp. My husband’s dad had conducted extensive genealogy research for both his side of the family and my own, and then he put together an amazing book detailing our familial history (best gift ever!). We discovered my husband had ancestors who sailed on the Mayflower, and I’m distantly related to George Washington. The book was chock full of family names, and we perused it one day and both decided we liked Thomas (a name belonging to several of our ancestors). Kemp is a family name; it belonged to my husband’s grandfather who passed away from ALS before I had a chance to meet him. I also felt it was a solid Catholic name since the author of the Christian classic The Imitation of Christ was Thomas à Kempis. Well, lo and behold, we welcomed our first boy into the world, so Thomas Kemp it was. When we baptized him, the priest, a family friend, complimented the name choice and asked if it had anything to do with Thomas à Kempis. (I may have performed an imaginary fist pump in the air for my Catholic name-choosing awesomeness.) We always call him Thomas – no Tom or Tommy, please. My dad (a lover of nicknames) does sometimes call him “T,” which I like. Growing up, I was Katie-Did or M.L.M.D.M.T.D. (short for My Love, My Dove, My Treasure Divine; I was my dad’s only girl. J To this day, my dad gives almost everyone some sort of nickname.

As for all of our daughters’ names, I’d always loved the name of Madeline, but I also considered Clare for our first. We decided on Madeline Louise before she was born. I write journals during pregnancy to all of my babies, so it was beautiful being able to call her by her name in her letters. My mom’s mother sadly died when my mom was only a teenager and they had always had a very close relationship. My late grandmother’s name was Dorothy Louise; that’s where Madeline’s middle name comes from. I almost always call my daughter Madeline (she’s 12 now – sheesh!), but a lot of family and friends call her Maddy, and my dad sometimes affectionately refers to her as Maddy Lou.

We named our second child Rachel Marie, and we called her by that full name for awhile because it just rolls off the tongue so beautifully. But we eventually shortened it to Rachel or Rae. I love calling her Rae or even Rae-Rae, and the lullaby I sang to her when she was a baby was “You Are My Sunshine,” and I’ve always thought of her as my “Rae” of sunshine. My husband’s sister is named Rachel and his mom also had an aunt named Rachel, so it’s a family name as well. Marie is, too. My mom’s name is Eileen Marie, and I’m Kate Marie (just Kate on my birth certificate; it’s not short for anything, although my family refers to me as Katie most of the time). Marie is such a classic, lovely name, and it goes well with almost any first name! Rachel is 9 now. When she was little, we all called her Baby Rae since that’s what Big Sister Madeline started referring to her as. I still frequently call her Rae-Rae and suspect I always will.

Next up was Mary Elizabeth, also known as M.E. or just Mary. She was almost a Jane Clare. My husband liked the name Emmie, but we both agreed that we wanted her to also have a more sophisticated moniker for when she was older. We came up with M.E. (pronounced like Emmie) that could be short for Mary Elizabeth, a quintessential Catholic name. M.E. answers to any of these names – Mary Elizabeth, M.E., or Mary – but she’s told me recently she thinks she prefers simply “Mary.” Although when she was just learning to write, she loved how short the name M.E. was!

Both my husband and I definitely prefer to steer clear of overly trendy names and do tend to gravitate toward traditional names that run in our families. This go-around, as I mentioned, we have no solid picks for our baby boy (suggestions are welcome!). I like Joseph, but my husband isn’t as crazy about it. We all like William (kids included), but William Wicker makes me chuckle and think of the “Wuv, true wuv” line from The Princess Bride. James is a contender, but we’re not completely sold. We like the name John, but there are tons of Johns still alive and well on both sides of our families. I don’t tend to worry too much proprietary rights to names, but I know some parents take it very seriously. We did briefly consider Gerald since this is my husband’s father’s name, but then we realized people might accuse us of having a Tom and Jerry. No thank you.

I’m thinking we will likely decide upon a name when baby number 5 makes his big debut! I’m due in early January, so stay tuned.

Kate, thanks so much for having me.

Aren’t these great name stories??! There are so many details I love — the family and faith connections in each name; the way Mary Elizabeth’s name started with a love of “Emmie” (M.E. for Emmie is so darling! As is the fact that M.E. currently prefers Mary, so sweet); and how Thomas Kemp immediately brings Thomas á Kempis to mind — it was my first thought when Kate announced his birth, and how cool that Kemp is a family name!

So … Kate said “suggestions are welcome!” for her little boy … you know I can’t not offer some ideas! So based on Madeline, Mary, Elizabeth, Rachel, Thomas, Jane, Clare, Joseph, William, James, John, and Gerald (and not knowing, of course, any family names, so I get it if none of these work) I would suggest:

(1) Charles
Thomas and Charles have a great gentlemanly feel together! I think Charles Wicker sounds great, and Charlie is an adorable nickname. There are also loads of other nickname ideas for Charles that I’m pretty swoony over (seeing as how I love a good offbeat nickname).

(2) Stephen
Like how Kate’s Thomas is just Thomas, I really love the full Stephen. Thomas and Stephen are great brother names!

(3) Daniel
Daniel always has a sweet, affectionate feel to me because of Danny Boy. It’s classic and biblical and just a great name.

(4) Benjamin
Benjamin is mostly inspired by Rachel — Madeline, Mary Elizabeth, and Thomas have a very traditional feel, and while Rachel is just as traditional, it has a little something different that I think Benjamin mirrors.

(5) Henry
Finally, Henry — one of the sweetest names ever, and having some great heavy-hitting patron saints. I love Henry with Kate’s other kids!

Two additional thoughts: One of the combos I’ve been loving recently is James Kolbe (I like the nickname Jake for it, but it’s great on its own), and it feels a lot like Thomas Kemp to me, with the unusual middle name that’s really saintly, so I thought I’d offer that as well. Also, while Kate and her hubs might not have any babies after this one, if they’re ever blessed with another girl, Jane won’t be usable if they use John this time. You know what a conundrum it can be in regards to saving a beloved name for later at the expense of this baby’s name now! But I thought it was important to note.

And those are all my thoughts/ideas! What do you all think? What ideas do you have for this little boy?

Thanks again to Kate for sharing all this fun info with us! Please keep her in your prayers as she nears the end of her pregnancy and gets ready to meet her Little Mister, and be sure to check out her web site, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter for more info about her books and her musings on motherhood and more!

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Abe Lincoln’s son

December 2, 2016 sanctanomina Naming nitty gritty Nicknames

My husband is reading a book about Abraham Lincoln right now (Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln; he loves it), and was telling me about his son Tad. He said he didn’t know the boy’s given name, though he assumed it was Thaddeus, and asked me if I would look it up to be sure.

Any time my husband asks me to do name research, I drop everything and scurry off to do it, so rare is it and so delighted am I to have any kind of name conversation with him ever. 🙂

I discovered that Tad Lincoln’s given name was Thomas! He was nicknamed Tad because his dad thought he was “as wiggly as a tadpole” when he was a baby. How cute is that! To me, that makes Tad very doable as a nickname for a Thomas in a more “official” way because there’s a precedent for it. Do you agree? What do you think of Tad as a nickname for Thomas?

Celebrity guest: Hope from Hope and Justin

November 1, 2016November 3, 2016 sanctanomina Personal stories, Real-life naming Biblical names, Catholic baby names, Hope and Justin, JPII, Mary, Nicknames

Happy All Saints’ Day!! And I’m so sorry for totally not even remembering it was Halloween when I posted yesterday’s consultation — I hope you and all the little goblins you know (children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, godchildren, friends’ children, cousins, students) had a great day! 🎃 My boys had a blast, and my very favorite part was my littlest guy — at 2 1/2, this was the first Halloween he could walk up to each door and say “Trick or Treat!” and I just died over his cuteness every single time.

I have a special treat for you all on today’s special feast day! Ages ago readers Colleen Harlan and eclare alerted me to Hope and Justin Schneir of the band, yes, Hope and Justin, because of their amazing taste in names and eclare said, “I’m thinking they might need to be profiled on Sancta Nomina!” So I ran right over to Google, but wasn’t able to find out anything about the kids’ names — there was their band’s web site (including songs to listen to and a music video to watch of them and albums and merchandise to buy) and their Instagram and Facebook, but the kids’ names weren’t mentioned at all … there was this amazing Miraculous Medal story, written by Hope, but again — no mention of the kids’ names.

I figured I must just not have done a thorough enough search, so occasionally, every few weeks or so, I would search again. Finally, I just recently had the brilliant idea to just email them! Seriously, what’s wrong with me? Why didn’t I just do that to start with? I don’t know, all I can think is that now must be when God wanted this beautiful family profiled here. He’s funny like that, with His timing sometimes being mysterious but always perfect.

So without further ado, I’m beyond excited to introduce you to the Schneir Family! Hope wonderfully agreed to answer all my questions about the names of her children — I’m sure you’ll all enjoy this as much as I did!

Kate: I saw on the Soul Gardening journal web site (after reading your beautiful post about the Miraculous Medal and your friend Tree—ohh my, what an amazing story!) that you have seven children, and one of my readers said she thought one of your girls’ names is Indigo Madonna, which gives me all the heart eyes! I’m so eager to know all your kiddos’ names, and the “story” that goes with how you chose each one, if you don’t mind sharing! Any faith connections—saints, devotions, Our Lady, etc—that inspired you would also be great! Also, any nicknames that you might use (I’m a big fan of nicknames!).

Hope: Ask a woman (or at least this one!) to discuss names she’s chosen and you’ll get an earful. I hope I don’t go on too long or bore you or your lovely readers. Feel free to edit it down to whatever you think they will find interesting!

[My note: I didn’t edit anything! I loved it all!]

Ready for the lineup? We actually just had baby number 8! I’ll get to her at the end.

Our first born is Elijah Anthony. My husband Justin is a Jewish convert and he loved Elijah the Prophet from childhood, and wanted our firstborn son to bear his name. We chose Anthony after my father Bruce Anthony, and because I’ve always loved St. A. When he was born, a family friend came to the hospital and affectionately called him Elijah Blue (an ornamental grass), and it stuck. It’s sort of his pretend middle name and I call him that when I love him dearly and when I’m mad at him. But he’s awesome. So that doesn’t happen a lot.

Second in line is Henry Tobias. I was raised in Vermont; up the road from me lived a friendly dairy farmer with a red beard named Henry, and since then I’ve always found the name endearing. Tobias was also in the runnings, and while I was praying about his name I opened the bible, and the first thing I saw was the word TOBIAS, so we were sure to include it. Henry is just such a sweet, honest, name. I don’t think I would ever feel like it was too popular, it’s just that great.

Third is Triona Mary Wilder. My best childhood friend had the name Triona Wilder Marno-Ferree (she went by Tree.) She passed away in 2000, and we wanted to honor her, plus we both love the nickname Tree. Triona is a form of Catherine, particularly meaningful because St. Catherine Laboure was the Saint of the Miraculous Medal, and my childhood friend and I exchanged Miraculous medals both as children and grown-ups, even though she was not a Catholic. I don’t know if I could have named a daughter Tree if I hadn’t grown up knowing and loving one personally, but I’m thankful Justin encouraged the name, even when I was nine months pregnant and considering Madonna.

Number four is Indigo Madonna. 🙂 I just love the title of Madonna for Our Lady, and I’ve always wanted Catholics to take it back after it’s been so pop-culture secularized. I also love the name (and word, and color) Indigo, and I couldn’t believe my husband liked it enough to go for it, but he did, and we did, and we call her Indi.

Next in line is Morey. Justin’s grandfather is Maury, and we wanted to use that name, but to give him a patron, so we officially named him Thomas More, (such an awesome saint!). Our son is weirded out when anyone calls him Thomas, but he loves the name Morey, and so do we! It’s also a boogie board brand, and it’s always fun when someone says “Oh, like Morey Boogie?”

Years before she was born, Justin and and I were sharing a cigarette at night and he started talking about the name June, with a big smile on his face. At that point she was literally a glimmer in her father’s eye, now she is Juniper Rose, but she usually goes by June or Junie. Juniper is a type of Cypress tree, also the name of the first canonized Californian, Saint Junipero Serra. Rose (Mystical Rose) is a title of Our Lady, and also a nod to her date of birth, December 12, (feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe). On the day she was born I opened my Magnificat to my favorite hymn, “Lo, How a Rose E’re Blooming”, and I cried. It’s become her special song and I sing it to her all year long. She’s a spunky little girl with two braids and the nickname”Junie” really suits her.

Next is Wren Priscilla-Marie. My grandmother Priscilla (Pinky) had 13 children, and remains one of my heroes. We almost chose this name/nickname combo as her first name, but chickened out, or maybe just preferred, Wren. I think it’s so pretty, especially written out! I’ve always loved the name Gwen, and it’s got that feeling for me but with the bird reference. When deciding, I applied my sister’s test of “What would you rather YOUR name be?”, and we decided to put Priscilla second. Another thing that made this name special for me was this quote by St. Therese. “O Jesus, your little bird is happy to be weak and little. What would become of it if it were big? Never would it have the boldness to appear in your presence, to fall asleep in front of you.” I had just discovered the Theresian book “I Believe in Love”, and was very moved by this quote and her message of littleness; with this in mind, she was named. If you can’t already tell, I’m big into the Church Calendar. Her birthday (October 3) is the old feast of St. Therese, and the eve of St. Francis, and I think the name Wren goes well with the spirit of both of these Saints.

Mercy Shawn-Pauline is the newest one! When Indigo was born we had considered the name Mercy, but I’m glad we shelved it because it was really special to have a daughter named Mercy in the Year of Mercy. I found out I was pregnant for her on the very first day of the Year of Mercy, December 8, (feast of the Immaculate Conception). I took a pregnancy test that morning because I thought that on that feast I could brave facing the truth about another baby (it frightens me every time!). My heart was filled with only joy at the positive test results, which is a mercy for me! Shawn-Pauline is a feminine form of John Paul; it’s also the professed name of one of my dearest friends who is now a Carmelite nun. We almost named her Mercy Vianne, because she was born on the feast of John Vianney, but kept with Shawn Pauline for the above reasons. She was baptized on the feast of the Queenship of Mary ([August] 22), and at her baptism the priest began his homily with “Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of MERCY!” which was so profound and touching to Justin and me. One thing I love about this name, is the deeper meaning and message it relays. I’ve really loved having the name Hope; it’s been a privilege to share this word, this message, each time I introduce myself. I have seen people light up when I tell them my name, as if God were trying to tell them something (and I like to think he was!). I hope Mercy feels the same way about her name, and she is able to bless others with the message of mercy throughout her life.

Kate: Based only on Indigo Madonna, I’m guessing you have pretty bold taste (which I LOVE!). Have you seen your taste in names changes over the years? Were you bolder with your younger kids’ names than with your older kids, or vice versa?

Hope: My favorite names are unique but easy to remember. I have a hard time remembering names that are words I am unfamiliar with, so those sorts kind of drive me crazy until I get used to them. You wouldn’t know it, but I also love traditional names, they’ve really grown on me over time! John, Daniel, Margaret, and Anne are some of my favorites in that genre. However once we started going down a non-traditional road with names, it was too fun not to keep at it. My middle name is Mary, and I have always felt a special protection of Our Lady because of it, so we try to do something Marian for each girl.

Kate: I’m sure you have lots of family, friends, and fans who are Catholic and love the names of our faith—has interacting with them and hearing what they’re naming their kids influenced you in terms of which names *feel* popular (even if they’re not popular in the general American namescape)? Does the popularity of names in the circles you run in influence the kinds of names you choose for your own kids? (Basically, do you shy away from names that you feel are very well represented among the children you know?) Do the Social Security name stats affect you when choosing names?

Hope: I admit that if names are climbing the charts, I’m less likely to want them, but it’s impossible to predict trends, so I try to make sure I like the name enough to choose, even if it were to become the number one name.

Kate: How has your music career influenced your taste in names? Do you feel like you bring the same creativity and artistry to naming that you do to your music? Have you ever encountered names while on tour, for example, or among your fellow musicians that you love and add to your list?

Hope: I have a musical career? 😉 I write songs in my living room, with babies crawling around me and babbling into my voice memo recordings. With all the mothering and fathering we do, Justin and I haven’t been able to go on an official tour, but we do record locally and perform at select venues when the season is right. Each time we make an album it feels like another baby, and we obsess over its name just as if it were one. Like many people, especially writers, I really just enjoy words in general; the beauty they can call to mind, the pictures they can paint, the heavenly protecters they pay tribute to. Getting to name a child is such an honor, it’s the first real gift you give to them, and it’s a gift they will always have, even after you die.

Kate: I’d love to know if there are any names you considered that you ended up feeling were not quite right for you, for whatever reason? Any names that are on your “guilty pleasure” list that are just too far out there or not unusual enough or whatever?

Hope: Heck yeah! I love thinking about all of my hypothetical children! Micah Cloud is my favorite imaginary child; that would have been Indigo’s name had she been a boy. (Cloud is a Saint, by the way!) The last two girls would have been either John Paul (there are a million I know but still!) or Woody (Woodrow), just because we like it. Woody is a little bit of a guilty pleasure for me… we’ve gone back and forth on that one quite a bit. I also love the names Lawrence, Iris, Cyril, and Bruce, after my father, but neither of them go well with Schneir. My childhood friend Tree had a little sister named Linden (what is it with us and tree references?) and I love that name too.

Kate: Again, please don’t feel constrained by these questions! They’re only meant to inspire, and I LOVE tangents when it comes to names!

Hope: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share all of this! One final thought on names that comes to mind….When naming a child, we can hem and haw over it and ask God what he wants the name of the child to be, but I think it’s good to remember that God gave Adam the freedom to name the animals whatever he wanted. Sometimes God intervenes, as with John the baptist or Jesus, but most often he lets us pick the name, like Adam, and how cool is that!? It’s also interesting to note that in Scripture, Jesus occasionally changed people’s names, as with Peter. In Revelation there is a reference of a white stone, secret message, or name, that He will give to each one of us. I think it’s possible that when we get to heaven, we might receive a new name, if God wants to give us one. My mother had a dream that God gave her the new name “Eartha”! I find this an interesting thing to think about.

I’m just blown away by everything Hope had to say — she’s such a great example of what’s *possible* in naming! (And motherhood and music!) A great many thanks to Hope for sharing all this info with us (and to Justin, for being an amazing naming partner!). And be sure to check out their site! (Hope said, “We are just starting to play and record again after this last baby, but don’t have any shows scheduled.”)

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Baby name consultant: 3rd boy/6th baby needs traditional name with possibly jazzy middle

October 31, 2016 sanctanomina Baby name consultant Biblical names, Catholic baby names, Nicknames

Blair, who blogs at Blair’s Blessings and started a Facebook group last year called Catholic C-Section Moms (be sure to check it out if you need support/encouragement/advice/prayers!), and her husband are expecting their sixth baby — their third boy!

This little guy joins big sibs:

Mary Clare (goes by both)
Elizabeth Ann Marie “Ellie”
Steven Joseph, Jr.
Thomas William
Katherine Maria Grace “Katie/Katie-Grace”

Of course I love each of these names — how can you go wrong with such classic, saintly names?!

Blair writes,

“As you can see, we like rather traditional saint names! We like some biblical names (for example Rebekah or David) but aren’t sure how well they’d fit with the others. I think we’d prefer a more obvious saint name as the first name. I like the children having a unique first initial, but could budge on that.

So far, the boys’ names are family names. Our first son is a junior and the other son is named after both grandfathers. But Peter has always been my husband’s favorite. In fact, it was the name of our first son throughout the pregnancy until a few days before he was born (he even has a bag monogrammed with Peter!).

None of the names seem to really jump out at me right now, so I’d love some more ideas! … maybe they just need a good middle name to liven them up. This will also be my 6th c-section, so the name game helps to distract me and get me excited for the big day when we will meet this sweet babe, God-willing! Thanks for your ideas!“

(Isn’t that a funny story about her oldest boy, Steven, having been Peter during the pregnancy so much so that he has a bag monogrammed with “Peter” on it?!)

The names on their list include:

Top two contenders:
Peter (“my husband’s favorite, but we have a hard time with middle names that fit“)
John Paul (“we met Pope St. John Paul II for a newlywed blessing in 2002, but it’s definitely popular among our Catholic homeschool circles“)

Others we like, and possible middle names:
Michael
Matthew
Patrick
Edward
David
Jacob

(Sooo jealous of their newlywed blessing from JP2!! 😍😍😍)

Names on their no-go list for various reasons:

Andrew
Caleb
Joshua
Francis

And for inspiration, the girl names they considered include

Jane
Theresa/Therese “Tess”
Rose/Rosemarie/Rosalie
Caroline
Anna

Alrighty, first of all I wanted to address the concern that David might not go so well with the other kids’ names. When I was doing my research for Blair (you all know that I usually start a consultation by looking up the names that the parents have used and like/are considering in the Baby Name Wizard as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity), I wasn’t at all surprised to see that David was listed a style match for both Steven and Thomas! I know a couple of Stephen+David brothers and Thomas+David brothers, and with St. David being a fairly popular saint (patron of Wales, in addition to the biblical David), yeah — I’d definitely keep David on the list if I were Blair!

I also loved Blair’s thought that maybe they “just need a good middle name to liven up” some of their ideas, so I wanted to spend some time on that. The first idea I had was Peter Xavier — it’s a combo I came across when working on my Sibling Project — one of the readers offered that they know a Kateri who has a brother named PeterXavier (double first name, all one word, no hyphen), and I immediately loved it! I think Xavier is so cool in the first or middle spots — no cooler initial than X! — and putting it in the middle I think really makes the first name sparkle. They could also do something like Peter Giorgio, for Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati — I don’t know if they have any Italian heritage, but I don’t think Italian heritage is necessary to use Giorgio in the middle as an honor name for a specific person who went by Giorgio. I also know a little Peter Karol, after JP2 of course — it basically translates into “Pope John Paul,” right? Peter=pope, Karol=John Paul! Or Peter Charles, for JP2 as well? It could be a first name+middle name, or they could do a double first name like Mary Clare.

As for Blair’s idea of “John Paul (or another double John name),” I’ve become more and more convinced that double John names are some of the very best—they remind me quite a bit of the Mary doubles, where Mary can stay part of the everyday name (like their Mary Clare) or it can just be on forms and the girl can go by her middle name, and either way it adds a little Marian dazzle which is awesome. I find it a bit harder to bling out a boy’s name without it heading toward the feminine side, but John+ names are always good for that. This post has a whole lot of John+ ideas!

If they love the idea of naming after JP2 but are wary of using John Paul itself because of all the little John Pauls they know, there are other ways Blair and her hubs might like to nod to him. I suggested Peter Karol or Peter Charles above, and I quite like Charles as a first name for this family as well. I know it’s not as obvious as John Paul, but that can also be its strength as well, as it might be less used among the families they know. Another idea, which I just loved when I first read it, is to use his childhood nickname of Lolek as a nickname for Luke—a reader suggested it here and I thought it was brilliant! I love Luke as a brother to Steven and Thomas—nice and biblical, and I basically consider Luke to be a Marian name because his gospel’s the most Marian; it’s also a style match for Jacob, Tess, and Clare. Or Lolek as a middle name? Peter Lolek? Anyone who knows anything about JP2 would get the reference right away I think, and though I’ve seen Lolek used here and there, as far as I can tell it’s pretty rare.

Another idea I had was to do with Michael on their list — I’ve long liked the idea of something like Michael Alexander or Michael Xavier with the nickname Max — not only can an interesting middle name “liven up” a more comfortable first name, so can an interesting or unexpected nickname! Michael is definitely “comfortable” — handsome, traditional, established, masculine, saintly — but a Michael nicknamed Max gives it a twist! Or, this book, as well as a bunch of other places online, argue that one origin of Miles may be as a contraction of Michael. So Miles on its own could be a Michael name or, as I would love for Blair, a nickname for Michael (and you all know one of the other origins of Miles, which I die over and push on people all the time — an anglicization of the Irish Maolmhuire=”servant of the Virgin Mary” … so Michael nicked Miles could be a St. Michael+Marian name all in one!). Or an idea that I’ve recently loved is something like Michael Oliver nicknamed Milo (or really, Milo could be a nickname for Michael even without an O middle name). So many fun options!

But of course, offering interesting nickname ideas isn’t what Blair asked for and I suspect it might not be her style, so I’d love to hear all your ideas for spicy middle names!

As for first-name ideas for this little boy, I thought these might also fit Blair and her Mister’s style:

(1) Robert
Robert jumped out at me right away as a name that just *felt* right for this family. It’s also a match for Mary (standing in for Mary Clare, since Mary Clare doesn’t have its own entry in the BNW), Thomas, Elizabeth, Jane, Theresa, David, and Peter—a great fit! My husband used to tease me mercilessly that his naming style is “Bob,” and so for a long time I totally disregarded Robert, but more recently I’ve been digging it. I think Robert on Downton Abbey helped, and of course St. Robert Bellarmine is awesome, and I’ve been loving recently the unusual nickname ideas of Rory and Bo, but I’m not currently hating Robby either.

(2) Gregory
Gregory is really tied with Robert for me, as a suggestion for Blair. I love love love the name Gregory! It seems from conversations I’ve had that Greg really interferes with a lot of couples taking the plunge with Gregory, but alternatives include Grey, Rory (just like Robert), and even Gus with the right middle (like Gregory August or Gregory Samuel). St. Gregory the Great is an awesome patron, and I love what the BNW says about the name: “Popes, saints, and Gregory Peck! Can a name get any more distinguished?”

(3) George
Suggesting Peter Giorgio above made me think of George, as well as Pope Francis’ pre-papal name being Jorge=George. It’s a match for Mary, Rose, and Edward, and is just as sophisticated as the rest of Blair’s kiddos’ names.

(4) Henry
Finally, Henry, which I think is one of the sweetest names for a boy. It has impeccable saintly credentials—check out its spotlight here. It’s a match for the equally gentlemanly Charles, George, and Edward, as well as Caroline, and its traditional nickname Harry is a match for Tess.

And those are all my ideas for Blair’s little boy! What do you all think? What would you suggest for Mary Clare, Ellie, Steven, Thomas, and Katie’s little brother?

Name thieves

October 21, 2016 sanctanomina Naming nitty gritty Appellation Mountain, Dibs, Nameberry, Nicknames

Reader Anna posted a story to my Facebook wall today — one of Abby’s Name Sage posts on Nameberry that had gotten quite a bit of feedback: Baby Name Theft? Sibling rivalry over a name.

This is the issue:

“I have always loved the name Josephine, called Josie or Jo. My sister likes it, too. She doesn’t have kids yet, but really wants them. To be considerate, I asked if she was okay with us using Josephine for this baby. She said it was fine.

My husband and I decided to use the name. [Their older daughter] calls her sister Josephine, and we’ve been referring to the baby by name, though we haven’t officially announced it.

Just recently, my sister told me that she’d changed her mind, and she wants to keep Josephine for herself. Now she’s not speaking to me.

We don’t want to change the name. It fits for many personal reasons, and it’s the name we both love. Yet now when I hear it, I feel frustrated and sad.”

Oof! So maddening! So unfair! So ridiculous! I’m certain all of us can understand the mama’s perspective (who’s actually pregnant, actually expecting an actual baby who actually needs an actual name in the actual near future), but I’m sure even the most laid-back among us can imagine the sister’s perspective as well. What a dilemma!

I love that the expecting parents showed consideration and asked the sister for her permission (for lack of a better word) — we did this also with one of our boys. I hate that the sister said okay, and then changed her mind after the decision was already made. I hate that the sister isn’t speaking to the mom. I hate that the once-beloved, perfect name now evokes anger, frustration, and sadness.

I posted once about naming “dibs” and included a bunch of links that I thought were useful. Given that we add the element of faith to our name discussions, I think we might all agree that relationships are, objectively, more important than names? This is something I try to keep in mind myself, though I know I’m more laid back about this particular issue than a lot of other namiacs. I also feel like we can all intellectually agree that no one owns a particular name, so the idea of “name theft” is somewhat misleading. There are also a zillion other names (and Abby had some awesome suggestions for this couple). I also don’t at all mind the idea of first cousins having the same name, and I think I would love the challenge of coming up with different nicknames.

But. I also know that this can be a hugely emotional topic (especially for emotional pregnant ladies! I’m sacrificing my body, my hormones, my sleep, and my comfort for this baby, let me have my name!), which can override any objective understandings of anything. And relationships are more important than names, but it doesn’t sound like the sister in this situation agrees, and it’s hard to have a good relationship with someone who refuses to play by loving-relationship rules, and who insists on behaving in a way that feels traitorous, petty, and selfish (and I can see how both the sister and the mama could feel this way about the other). But then we’re supposed to rise above and do the right thing regardless. Gah! What a mess.

My dibs post is almost two years old, so let’s revisit it — what are your thoughts/reactions to the Nameberry post? Any personal stories you’d like to share?

Baby name consultant: Mary, music, and ends-in-a

October 17, 2016October 17, 2016 sanctanomina Baby name consultant Biblical names, Catholic baby names, Mary, Musical names, Nicknames, Spanish names

Mary Dove and her husband Gerry are expecting their seventh baby, a little girl! This little lady joins big sibs:

Maria Paloma (“which is Mary Dove in Spanish, she goes by Paloma“)
Isabella Maria (“goes by Bella, Bellita, Izzy“)
Juliana Marie (“Jules, Juice Cup, Julie Dear“)
Nicholas Matthias (“Nick, Nicko, even Nicodemus which I almost wish we named him because I have come to love it, he was named after Gerry’s Confirmation name, since he didn’t want a Jr.”)
Dominic Karl (“Dom, Domo and Domodemus; Karl is after my dad, Dom was almost Donovan but Dominic felt right“)
Augustine Raphael (“Gus, Gusto, Auggie; Raphael after Gerry’s dad“)

Just an amazing bunch of names! (And those nicknames! “Juice Cup”! 😀 ) I love them all, but I especially love that Maria Paloma has her mom’s exact name, just translated into Spanish — particularly interesting in light of our conversation about girls named after their moms the other day. (Also, the fact that Gerry “didn’ want a Jr.” makes it sound like Mary Dove would have been okay with that — further evidence for the idea that many of the boy Juniors are Mom’s idea!)

Mary Dove shared lots of fun namey info:

“I’ll start with me, since my own name needs some explaining. My name is Mary Donovan Z. My mom nicknamed me Mary Dove (like Mary Beth or Mary Jo) and it stuck. My family and close friends call me Mary Dove or Dove. I am part Irish/Scottish and German. My husband’s name is Gerry (Gerald) Micheal, he is European Spanish/Mexican and English/German. I like to have names that reflect family heritage and also the person’s appearance

A couple of things we do with our kid’s names, the girls have a Marian name in their names and the first name ends in the letter a because it flows with our last name (but having a name ending in A is not an absolute). 2 of our kids have blue eyes and freckles and burn in the sun (yup, that’s the Irish) and the other 4 have various light skin tones but tan and have green/grey/hazel eyes. 3 are slender and 3 are stocky (aren’t genes cool!!)

The boys have middle names that are family names. We also use nicknames a lot.”

I just died over Mary Donovan –> Mary Dove or just Dove. So great!

Regarding names for their Little Miss,

“[W]e will probably use Monica, as that is a family name and though not Marian, I think I might count it as Marian-ish. Gerry is partial to Felicity. I kinda like Pia (because I love Padre Pio). I prefer actual saint names but have considered the names Hope and Grace, too … [also] perhaps a variation on Bridget [after Mary Dove’s sister] … we are a bit of a musical family and was wondering about musical type names. My sisters and I had an a cappella singing group as teens and I play (though not really much now) the harp, Scottish bagpipes, and piano. My girls all play piano and each a string instrument (cello, violin and viola) my husband is learning guitar and Ukulele! (How cute is that? If you have older kids, the Ukulele is the cutest little instrument and quite easy to learn!) I like the name Cecelia but that seems to be the quintessential Catholic music name and plus I have a friend whose daughter is named Cecelia. Are there any other musical names out there??“

And a name that Mary Dove really likes but can’t use as it’s the name of her niece:

Anneliese

Alrighty, I’m going to jump right in with a few quick thoughts about the names Mary Dove and her hubs are currently considering: I love Monica, and I’m interested in her Marian-ish idea — I assume she means because it’s the name of a holy mother? I admit I’ve never heard that argument given before for the name Monica! But if her name calls Our Lady to mind for them, who am I to say it’s not Marian-ish!

I love the name Felicity, and I wondered what they’d both think of Felicita? It’s a legit variation (Italian) and retains their ends-in-a pattern. And speaking of Felicity/Felicita, of course I always think of Perpetua too, and I’ve heard of several little girls recently named Perpetua who go by the nickname Pia, which is a name Mary Dove said she likes — maybe they’d like to consider that as a way to use Pia, and it could also be a nod to St. Pio? Also, Our Lady is described as “pia” in the Salve Regina, so it can be a Marian name too. Maybe Monica Pia? And then they get a Marian name, their St. Pio name, and Monica all in one? (Though Mary Dove’s clever Juliana heard “onomatopoeia” when she heard Monica Pia — deal breaker? Or kinda cool?)

Before I get to my other ideas, I have to say I’m a bit stumped about the music question! I looked up patron saints of music, as there are usually several saints for each category/condition/etc., but there was only one listed besides Cecilia — St. Arnulf of Soissons, which didn’t strike me as terribly inspiring (though he himself is pretty awesome). I did see that a Frisian (from Wikipedia: “The Frisian languages are a closely related group of Germanic languages, spoken by about 500,000 Frisian people, who live on the southern fringes of the North Sea in the Netherlands, Germany, and Denmark. The Frisian languages are the closest living language group to English languages“) variant is Anne, used for both girls and boys and said AH-nah, so I thought maybe Ana or Anna would work as a nod to St. Arnulf? Or are they too close to Anneliese?

I looked up patron saints of singers and had a little more success: St. Andrew the Apostle, King David, and St. Gregory the Great (Gregorian Chant is named after him) are all patrons of singers. Of those, Andrea would fit in well with the other girls’ names (and it’s a style match for Monica!), and I’ve seen Andra and Andrina as well. Greer is used as a feminine form of Gregory — it’s from a Scottish surname derived from Gregory, which is a nice nod to Mary Dove’s Scottish heritage. I don’t think it would work as a first name for this family, but maybe as a middle?

I had the most luck with “saints who were singers” — there are a lot of them (the full list here); these were three of my favorite ideas for them:
— Bl. Anne Pelras (that “Anne” again!)
— Bl. Chiara Badano (looooove Chiara for this family! It’s Italian instead of Spanish, but ends in -a and is so lovely, like the other girls)
— Bl. Marie-Gabrielle Trezel (Gabriela would be a perfect fit!)

And then I had the idea of Aria — as it refers to “song” or “melody” in Italian, and ends in -a, and is beautiful — and looked to see if there was a holy Aria, and there is! St. Aria of Rome! (The Game of Thrones character Arya Stark, said the same is Aria, is good to be aware of though, as some might think the name was inspired by her.)

Okay! I did a full round of research for girl names, where “research” means, as you all know, looking up all the names they’ve used and those they like/are considering in the Baby Name Wizard, which is an awesome resource as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity. I also went through my own mental files, and here’s what I came up with:

(1) Jacinta
Bl. Hyacinth-Marie Cormier is one of the blesseds who was a singer, and Jacinta — which I’d already had on my list for them! — is a feminine variant of Hyacinth (and actually Hyacinth can be used as a female name as well — see the Pioneer Woman’s best friend Hyacinth). I’d say it jah-SIN-tah, the English way, and I assume Mary Dove’s Juliana is said with an English J? But they could also do hah-SEEN-tah, it’s gorgeous either way. And it’s also Marian-ish, since Bl. Jacinta Marto was one of the Fatima children.

(2) Lilia, Liliana, Lilli
Lilies are associated with Our Lady, and so the Lily names are Marian. Lilia’s one of my very favorite variants, and Liliana’s another (and is actually a style match for Juliana — but maybe two names ending in -ana is too much?). Lili and Lilli are German variants that are specifically diminutives of Elisabeth (as Lily is a traditional nickname for Elizabeth), which is cool, but like with Juliana/Liliana, are any of the Elizabeth variants too much with sister Isabella? I think no, since one could choose a Lily name just because of the flower or Our Lady without any intention of connecting to Elizabeth. (Lillian is also a style match for Isabella, and Lily for Bella).

(3) Magdalena
I love this variant of Mary Magdalene’s name — it ends in -a like the other girls’ names, and has the beautiful nickname options Maggie (which has an Irish feel), Maddy, and Lena.

(4) Victoria, Veronica (or Cora?)
Victoria is a style match for several of their names — Juliana, Nicholas, and Sebastian — and I’ve recently been loving it as a nod to Our Lady of Victory. I’ve also seen the nickname idea Cora for it recently, which not only makes Victoria feel a bit fresher, but can also be a nod to either the Immaculate Heart of Mary or the Sacred Heart of Jesus (“cor” in Latin means “heart”). It made me think of Veronica, which is another gorgeous V name and a great saintly connection. I actually think Cora could also work as a nickname for Veronica, as well as Vee and Via (but not the Nic- names, of course, because of Nicholas. The traditional Ronnie feels a little dated to me, but if they like it that’s another nickname option). I’m also loving just Cora, as a given name!

(5) Natalia
Natalia also did quite well for them in my research, being similar in style to Juliana, Nicholas, Dominic, and Sebastian. I love the name Natalia, and I think Nat, Natty, Talia, Tally, Nia, and Lia are all sweet.

(6) Britta, Breda/Brida
My last girl idea for this baby girl is Britta, 100% inspired by Mary Dove’s sister Bridget, as Britta is a variant of it (and it ends in -a!). I love Britta, and another awesome tidbit is that it’s a style match for Pia! I’ve also seen Breda and Brida as variants/anglicizations of the Irish Bríd, which I believe is said “breed” and is an Irish contracted form of Brighid, which is of course a variant of Bridget.

And those are all my thoughts/ideas for this baby girl! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest for this beautiful family?

Spotlight on: Benedict/a

October 13, 2016 sanctanomina Spotlight Catholic baby names, Nicknames, Papal names

I haven’t done one of these in ages and it feels goooood to work on one! 😀

One of you dear readers asked me for a spotlight on Benedicta a while ago, so I thought it would be best to add in Benedict as well, as Benedict is the “originating name” in the sense that it was a name first, and then the female variant arose. (Withycombe says that Benedicta is, “Probably as a rule simply a f. form of Benedictus, the man’s name, though there are one or two obscure saints Benedicta.”)

Benedict/a’s meaning rocks: “blessed.” So great, right?! And for us, it also means “any of the Sts. Benedict, and/or the Benedictine Order (especially for those who have a Benedict spirituality), and/or our dear Papa Benny — Pope Emeritus Benedict XIV (aka B16 because we Catholics are cool like that, giving our popes hip nicks. 😀 ).”

Speaking of hip … this image of St. Benedict always kills me, he looks so cool, like he’s just wearing his hoodie, hanging out with friends, like (Catholic nerd alert!) your favorite young seminarian or director of campus ministry. 😀 I hope it isn’t disrespectful to say so! It’s my favorite image of him, and if I ever have a Benedict, I’ll get this icon for him.

st_benedict_of_norcia — Hoping it’s okay that I’m including this screen grab — I’ve seen this image all over the internet and only tonight discovered who wrote it — great job, Br. Claude Lane! I got it from Mount Angel Abbey’s web site.

I know some people have a hard time moving past the Benedict Arnold association that, unfortunately, continues to cling stubbornly to the name, but fortunately that’s only an American problem, and Pope Benedict, Benedict Cumberbatch, and time have all helped to dilute it, and will continue to do so I’m sure.

Benedicta suffers from no such problematic association, as far as I’m aware, and Simcha Fisher’s little Benedicta Maribel — called Benny exclusively and swoonily — is a tremendous example of how such a big name can work on a beautiful little girl.

As far as nicknames go for Benedict, there’s Ben and Benny, and I’ve suggested Bede as a nickname for it, and I’ve recently been loving the idea of Boon(e) as a nickname for it too, if you want something a little offbeat — it means “good,” a similar meaning to Benedict, which just adds to its possible use as a nickname for Benedict in my opinion (Abby did a post on Boone not too long ago, which I loved). I’ve also seen Ned (and Neddy!) — seriously adorable! Benito is a Spanish variant (though … is the Mussolini connection still too strong?) and Benedetto an Italian variant, and I think some of the other foreign variants could really work as nicknames or given names too, like Bendt/Bent (Danish), Bence (Hungarian), and Bento (Portuguese).

For Benedicta, there’s of course Benny and I think Betty, Neddy/Nettie, and even Becka could work. (Which makes me think — Beck could work as a nickname for Benedict too! Fun!) I could see Bonnie working for a girl as well. Benita is a Spanish form and Benedetta an Italian form (and Bettina its diminutive). Pretty!

I can’t not mention also Bennett/Bennet/Benett/Benet/Bennitt — medieval variants of Benedict that can be a little easier to bear while still retaining the saintliness of the name. Withycombe even says that those same variants were used for girls as late as the end of the 17th century! She also says that the surnames Benn and Benson were derived from Benedict, which provide further ideas.

All in all, I think Benedict and Benedicta are great names, very usable. I’d love to hear from any of you who have a Benedict/a or know any — do they like their name? Do they go by a nickname and if so, what is it?

Baby name consultant: French-ish for girls, classic for boys, no ending in long E

October 10, 2016October 10, 2016 sanctanomina Baby name consultant Catholic baby names, French names, Mary, Nicknames

Lauren and her husband are expecting their fourth baby, a little green bean (=gender unknown)! Their older kiddos are:

Michael Douglas (“my husband is Michael and my father is Douglas“)
Annabelle Grace (“after my great grandmother“)
John Walter (“goes by Jack, my grandfather’s name is Walter“)

I loooove these names!! The boys are so strong and handsome, and Annabelle is a huge favorite of mine!

Lauren writes,

“So I guess our trend has been strong(ish) family Catholic names? Jack is a bit of an outlier in terms of the length of his name because we still call Michael and Annabelle by their full names.

In terms of restrictions … names that end in a long E are pretty much out [because of having a last name that ends in the same sound]. For example, Betty or the like 🙂 I’m still a little torn on nicknames that end in that sound, because once in awhile a family member will call Michael Mikey or Annabelle Annie and they don’t say them with their last name, and it’s fine. Otherwise we are pretty open!“

Names they’ve considered for a girl include:

Mary Christine (“I’d like to use Christine, my mother’s name as a middle name — and I think I would consistently call her Mary Christine and not shorten it“)
Bernadette Christine

And for a boy:

Peter Charles (“Peter is my great-grandfather’s name“)
Benedict Something (“my husband likes Benedict but I’m not sure it fits with our current names“)
Francis (“I like — but would most likely call him Frankie, and there is the long E again. And my husband is not a huge fan“)

Additionally:

“Other family names for consideration include: George, William, Joseph, Fredrick, Agnes, Rose, Katherine, Patricia, Evelyn

As far as heritage, we are mainly German and Polish but my husband’s grandfather is from Syria“

I actually found this to be really challenging consultation because Lauren and her hubs have such great ideas already! You all know that I almost always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents have used and those they like/are considering in the Baby Name Wizard as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity, so when I looked up the names Lauren and her hubs like I focused only on Michael, Annabelle, John, Jack, Christine, Bernadette, Peter, Benedict, and Francis and didn’t look up the other family names they listed for consideration (George, William, etc.) … but then when I was making my list of ideas for them, I had Katherine and Patricia as two of my girl suggestions—and then I saw they were already on their family names list! So I found it a challenge to come up with *new* ideas!

Before I get to the ideas I did end up with, I first want to say how much I like Mary Christine, and I wondered if they’d considered using just Christine as the first name? I would be excited to see it as a first name, as it’s really unusual these days and it’s one of my favorite of the Christ- names, so elegant and lovely.

Bernadette I love as well, but I wondered if they would agree with me that using Bernadette or Benedict now would knock the other out for the future? They seem similar enough to me in sound and appearance that brother and sister Benedict and Bernadette seem a bit much. But I do love Benedict as well, both the name and especially our Pope Emeritus. I find it’s a bit tricky to find middle names for it, as most parents find they want to avoid initials BJ, BM, and BF, but Benedict Charles would be quite handsome, as would Benedict George (and George could be a nod to Pope Francis, as his birth name is Jorge [=George] — two popes in one!), and I think something like Benedict Leo and Benedict Henry would be great as well.

Peter Charles is wonderful, just a great combination. And Francis is great, and Frankie is so cute.

Okay! Onto my new ideas/suggestions:

Girl
(1) Rosemary, Rosemarie, Rosalie, Rosamond
Rosemary is a style match for Bernadette and Rosamond for Benedict, and with Rose already on their list of family names for consideration, I thought names like these made sense to suggest. I know Rosemary, Rosemarie, and Rosalie all end in the long E sound, but I’ve said them all over and over again with their last name, and I don’t mind them at all. Maybe because they’re longer than a nickname? Rosie LastName has the sound they don’t care for I think, but the longer versions are lovely. And Rosamond gets away from that altogether. Rose can easily be the nickname for each of these, which also avoids the rhymey endings.

(2) Juliet
Annabelle seems to be a bit of an outlier style-wise—all the other names they’ve got on their list are basically swirling around the same area, but Annabelle has a little pop of color that I just love. Juliet is a style match for it, which is one of my favorite names, and when I saw that Julia is a style match for John, I thought that gave me enough permission to suggest Juliet to Lauren and her hubs. I spotlighted Juliet here.

(3) Teresa, Theresa, Therese
Teresa’s a style match for Christine, Theresa’s a match for Peter, and Therese is a match for Bernadette! Each has its merits (how great for a little girl to be named after Mother Teresa during the very autumn that she was canonized! And of course St. Therese — all the roses! And Theresa can be for either of them); all can take the nicknames Tess or Tessa, which I think would be really great for this family, especially for a sister for John-who-always-goes-by-Jack. (For more on T(h)erese see my Sibling Project page.)

(4) Evangeline or Genevieve
These two were actually style matches for both Annabelle and Benedict! They’re both gorgeous names, and I’m listing them together because they’re sort of a one-or-the-other proposition, since they both have strong E and V sounds. They both can take the nicknames Evie and Vivi, which I assume they wouldn’t like with their last name, but Genevieve could also be Gen, Genna, or Vieve.

Boy
(1) Bennett
I was really excited about Bennett for this family! I’d scribbled it down for them when I first read Lauren’s email and saw that she’s not sure about Benedict, because Bennett’s a medieval diminutive of Benedict and it can be a bit easier to deal with than Benedict for many—not quite as heavy, but retaining the same holy connections (though not as obviously). And then I discovered it’s a style match for Annabelle! Woo!

(2) Thomas
Thomas is just a solid, classic name, and though all those solid, classic boys’ names can be considered similar to each other, Thomas was particularly listed as similar to Michael, John, and Peter. And not that they asked for middle name ideas, but I’m loving the idea of Thomas Benedict. 🙂

(3) Stephen
Stephen is a style match for Michael, Peter, and Christine, and I’ve been hearing it here and there on little boys recently, and I’m always pleasantly surprised. Both my 8yo and 4yo have best friends named Stephen, and both go by the full Stephen. Danielle Bean, editor-in-chief of Catholic Digest, has a son named Stephen Matthias, which is such a swoony combo!

(4) Philip
My last idea is Philip—it’s a style match for both Bernadette and Peter, and the full Philip is one of my favorites. I know some people have trouble with nicknames, because Phil is hard to picture on a little guy, but I’ve been suggesting Finn as a possible nickname for Philip recently, which I love, especially paired with an N middle name (I love the idea of the first+middle combo Philip Neri with the nickname Finn!). If they’re worried about a P given name with an F nickname, there’s precedence in Julia Roberts’ son Phinnaeus going by Finn. (I’ve also been suggesting Finn as a nickname for Francis, if they want to consider that.)

And those are my ideas for Lauren and her husband! What do you all think? What would you suggest for the little brother or sister of Michael, Annabelle, and Jack?