Middle names

Baby name consultation: Unexpected middle name for Mary

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , , , , ,

Maria and her husband are expecting their fourth baby — their third girl! This little lady joins big sibs:

Samuel Albert (Sam) “Samuel was born a few months after my husband became Catholic, and about nine months later I converted as well. We landed on his name quite easily. We knew we wanted a name that had spiritual significance for us and connected to our faith tradition. At the time that was biblical names. We loved the meaning of Samuel ‘God hears’. As a bonus, we  loved the literary connection of of Samwise from Lord of the Rings and that character’s loyalty and friendship.

Albert is a family name on my husband’s side. It is both my husband’s middle name, and his father’s middle name, and was his grandfather’s first name. In naming our first child, we realized connecting our children’s names to those that came before them was significant to us.”

Phoebe Grace “Phoebe checked all the previous boxes for us: faith connection with being a New Testament biblical name and not overly popular, unique but not unheard of. We loved the meaning “bright, or radiant” and the poetic connection to the moon, something that reflects light in the dark. (What a metaphor for Christian life, the moon reflecting the light of the sun.) Phoebe seemed like a bit of a risk. I thought people’s feelings would probably be polarizing, but I loved it and I thought it was charming and we went for it!

Grace is my mother’s name, and it was such a privilege to honour her when naming my first daughter.”

Anna Frances “Anna was named because of the biblical connection to the Prophetess Anna, who was one of the first people to recognize Jesus as the Saviour. How nice that it means, ‘Grace’ which gave her a connection to her sister’s name and my mother’s name again. We loved it because it was timeless and not overly popular. My husband’s mother’s middle name is Ann, so it was also a nice way to honour her. I’m also a huge Anne of Green Gables fan, so I liked the little connection to that name as well. 

Frances was chosen mostly because my husband wanted to honour St. Francis de Sales, and I also liked the connection to Pope Francis and St. Francis of Assisi. Also quite conveniently, Frances is a family name on my mother’s side of the family for many generations, and so it fits quite perfectly into place.”

Such wonderful names!! I love them all!!

Maria writes,

“For all our children we wanted to steer clear of names that were very popular or trendy, but wanted names that were both somewhat unique and had a ‘timeless’ quality. I definitely consulted Baby Name Wizard’s 100 year rule. 

We have landed on a first name for our baby girl: Her first name will be Mary. (Considering nicknames like Mae or Mair).

My husband has wanted to use the name Mary for awhile, and it has certainly grown on me as my connection to Mary has grown after my conversion from a Protestant to a Catholic. Although the name is, of course, very common in Catholic circles we are the only Catholics in our family and it’s not extremely popular overall on the charts so that works for us! Having done three biblical names so far, it is nice to do one for the fourth although that wasn’t a deal breaker for us. 

Also given my name is Maria, It is a nice connection to my third daughter in that way. I was also accidently named after my paternal grandmother.  Her name is Mary but she always went by a nickname so my Dad didn’t actually know this till after I was born and named! That is the one side of the family we’ve not honoured yet in our baby naming, so how perfect is that! My grandmother is in her 90s, and I recently traveled across the country to see her and attend my grandfather’s funeral. I told her that we were naming the baby Mary at that time, which was special.”

I don’t usually get consultation requests from parents who have already chosen a first name! But Maria’s “dilemma” is right up my alley! She continues,

“We are stumped for a middle name! 

Here’s a few of our thoughts:

– We checked all our boxes on the first name, and things are wide open! Mary has the faith connection and the family connection all in one. That being said, I love for a name (even a middle name) to have some significance and meaning behind it. A good ‘story’. 

– Because Mary is extremely traditional, I really wanted to find a middle name that was a bit unexpected and ‘fresh’ feeling. My husband liked names like Elizabeth and Catherine, but I really want to avoid anything that feels like it normally ‘goes with’ Mary or has that traditional double name feel. Rather uncharacteristically I had names like, ‘Wilder’, ‘Lark’, and ‘Gray’ on my ‘there’s no bad ideas in brainstorming’ long list. 

– I’m not sure how I feel about names that end in the same sound as Mary. Lucy was on our short list before for both girls, but I *think* I’m drawn to names that end in other sounds. 

Names that got to the short list: 

– A name with an ‘Elizabeth’ connection. My name is made of names derived from both Mary and Elizabeth (Maria Elyse). If her first name is Mary, I thought a version of Elizabeth might be a nice connection. It’s like having ‘the visitation’ captured in a name. I also love Pride and Prejudice and am secretly hunting for a ‘literary’ connection for this babe. The closest I got was: Elle, Ella, Isabel, Lise. None have so far really settled into being ‘the one’. 

– A name with an ‘Eve’ connection. I love the idea of Mary being the new Eve, and the connections between Mary and Eve. Ideas were: Eve, Eva, Ava, and maybe Evelyn (although I don’t think Evelyn is actually technically related to the name Eve…)

– Aveline – In my search for a more unusual middle name I stumbled across Aveline. Connection to the city of Avila, and therefore St. Theresa of Avila. I like that it is unusual and unexpected, and I think it sounds lovely with Mary. 

– I am drawn to some alliterative middle names – contenders were Mae, and Magnolia. These were the first ones that really made me feel excited like I did with our previous children’s names.  I think Mae is really a short form of Mary, so wasn’t sure that would fly. I thought maybe Magnolia could honour Mary Magdalene. Also worried it’s a little too quirky.  I’m not sure! Our other kids names have quite a depth of meaning, and I’m just not sure this fits the bill in the same way.

– Other names we’ve considered but didn’t quite sparkle for us: Charlotte, Lucia, Cecelia. 

Names we can’t use due to pets: Penelope, Eloise, Pia.”

I love that Maria and her husband have chosen Mary for the first name for their new baby!! It’s such a simply beautiful name. I love, too, that Maria and her baby will share a variant of Mary as first names! And that story about Maria’s paternal grandmother being Mary but her Dad not knowing is amazing. Wow!! Maria mentioned Mae and Mair as nicknames they’re considering; I also wanted to offer that Molly and Polly are both traditional nicknames for it.

One of the things Maria said is exactly what I would think as well: that since they “checked all [their] boxes on the first name … things are wide open” for the middle! And also, I would totally do what they’re thinking of in terms of finding an unexpected middle name. I’ve often said that Mary as a first name makes any first+middle combo sound Catholicky Catholic, and I myself would be leaning toward Wilder/Lark/Gray-type names instead of the beautiful but well used Elizabeth and Catherine. This is such a fun challenge!

Before I get on to new ideas, I thought I’d offer my thoughts on the names they’re already considering, in case they’re helpful:

  • A name with an “Elizabeth” connection: I absolutely love this idea for all the reasons Maria mentioned — finding an Elizabeth connection was one of my first priorities when I was trying to come up with ideas!
  • A name with an “Eve” connection: This is also a great idea, but I admit it pales in comparison to an Elizabeth name in my mind — I just love the Elizabeth idea! But it did inspire some of my ideas below!
  • Aveline: This, too, is beautiful, and Mary Aveline is stunning. Funny enough, Maria mentioned Evelyn in the “Eve” section, noting that it’s not actually etymologically related to Eve — but it is to Aveline! It was derived from Aveline! I’m not sure how that helps this family in any way, but it’s a fun thing to know!
  • Alliterative middle names: I, too, love alliterative combos! Maria’s right about Mae being a short form of Mary … I can also see what she means about Magnolia maybe being too quirky … it made me think of Marigold right away, but Mary Marigold wouldn’t work … I absolutely don’t want to steer them away from Mary as a first name, but I did wonder if Marigold as a first name might appeal to them? Mary/Mari could be her nickname, and I have a few readers (here, here, here) who named their babies Marigold with Our Lady, Queen as patron and the feast day of the Queenship of Mary (August 22 — same month as Maria’s due date!) as her name day. Even though Marigold and Magnolia are similar, I kind of feel like Marigold is the tiniest bit more grounded? Probably because of knowing a few little ones named Marigold, and Edith on “Downton Abbey” named her baby Marigold. All that said, I think Mary as a first name is the absolute perfect first name for an unexpected and even bold middle name, so I wouldn’t cross Mary Magnolia off their list! If they intend to call the baby Mary plus a nickname of her middle, then the full middle name can be as crazy as they want because very few people will ever really know what it is. Mary Mae is a fine nickname for Mary Magnolia; they could also do something like Mary Nola or Mary Lia as nicknames. I like Maria’s thought that Magnolia could honor St. Mary Magdalene; if she’s special to her, maybe a variant of her name might also appeal? Madeline/Madeleine and Magdalen(e)/Magdalyn/Magdalena would be lovely with Mary.
  • Names that end in the same sound as Mary: With Mary as the first name, I agree that I would lean away from a middle name that ends in the same sound — Mary Lucy sounds almost comical (though I know someone with a double name similar to Mary Lucy and it’s been fine for her. Anything can work if you want it to!). Maria said they’ve considered Lucia and didn’t care for it; I wonder if a different variant like Luz/Luce, Lucille, Lucinda, or Lux might work? Mary Luz and Mary Lux might especially touch on the Wilder/Lark/Gray feel that Maria was thinking of.

Okay! On to new ideas! They range from more “normal” to very bold, so hopefully something here will excite Maria and her husband! I normally look up the names the parents have already used and like in the Baby Name Wizard but in this case, since they’ve already chosen a first name, I focused instead on going through the M section of the BNW to see if there were any other alliterative options that jumped out at me, going through my own book of Marian names with the same goal in mind and to look for others that might appeal to Maria and her hubby, and jotting down ideas I had as I went about my day with their dilemma in mind. Based on all that, these are my ideas:

(1) Mary Bennet(t)

This is my favorite idea! I think it checks almost all Maria’s boxes if she’s open to thinking that it does. It has a connection to the Visitation in that Bennett is a medieval diminutive of Benedict, which is the word that’s used to translate Elizabeth’s words to Mary into Latin (“blessed are you among women” is benedicta tu in mulieribus in Latin). That also gives it a connection to Elizabeth (not as explicit as using a variant of Elizabeth, but still a connection if she wants it to be). And it has a literary reference, specifically to Pride and Prejudice! They spell it Bennet, of course, but it’s all the same name. And the fact that it’s predominantly a masculine first name and a surname gives it that unexpected/bold quality that Maria might be looking for.

(2) Mary Eliot/Elliot/Elliott/Eliette

Another name that might be perfect is Elliott (in whatever spelling!). Like Bennett is derived from Benedict, Elliott is derived from Elijah, giving it a nice faith connection (I included Elijah and its variants in my book of Marian names because of Elijah’s connection to Our Lady of Mount Carmel). Spelled Eliot, it can have a literary connection to T.S. Eliot. One of my readers has a daughter named Eliette, which is a feminine variant derived from Elijah. And Maria can think of it as having a connection to her name as well in that Eli- are the first three letters of Elizabeth.

(3) Mary Bessette

Bessette isn’t actually related to Elizabeth — it’s a surname derived from a French word “designating a small wood of birches” — but Bess is a traditional nickname for Elizabeth, so I don’t think it’s crazy that Maria and her husband could choose it based on the idea of “little Bess/little Elizabeth.” It comes with a saintly connection, too, in St. Andre Bessette — he’s great!

(4) Mary Evett(e)

My first few ideas were inspired by Maria’s desire for an Elizabeth connection; this one is inspired by her love of an Eve connection. Evett is a medieval diminutive of Eve that I included in the boy section of my Mary names book because it’s a surname and it reminded me so much of Evan and Everett, but it can also be feminine, as is probably most obviously seen in its variant spelling Evette (like Yvette, but Yvette derives from a different name). Other spellings/variants of the surname are Evatt, Evatts, Evetts, Evitt, and Evitts.

(5) Mary Majella/Maiella

I wanted to offer some alliterative options that Maria might like. The first is Mary Majella — Majella is the surname of St. Gerard Majella, patron of expectant mothers and a name that has some decent usage among Catholic girls especially of the older generations. I like the ending of “ella” could be considered a nod to Elizabeth. Majella is how St. Gerard is traditionally know, but that’s the English spelling and pronunciation — in Italian he’s St. Gerardo Maiella, and Maiella is a viable option too and so pretty! It’s said may-EL-la or my-EL-la as opposed to Majella’s ma-JEL-la.

(6) Mary Margo(t)

I thought Mary Margaret was too traditional for Maria, similar to Mary Catherine and Mary Elizabeth, but maybe a less common variant of Margaret would work? I like Margo/Margot — Mary Margo(t) is a cool combo.

(7) Mary Maeve

Since Maria was drawn to Mary Mae but knows that wouldn’t quite work since they’re the same name, what about Mary Maeve? Maeve is an Irish name said the same way as Mae but ending with the “v” sound (MAYV). If either Maria or her husband have Irish heritage, this could be really nice! A lot of people are intimidated by Irish names, but since Maeve is said just like it looks and it’s also currently no. 104, it’s one of the easiest Irish names to work with.

(8) Mary Amata

Finally, I’m including Amata simply because I love how it sounds with Mary. It’s in my book because it means “beloved,” which is such a great meaning, and Mary is called Mater amata (“beloved Mother”) in the hymn O Sanctissima.

Other names I thought about for Maria include Liesse, Quinn, Peyton, Cruz, Campion, Fulton, and Kolbe.

And those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest as pairing well with the first name Mary?

Read all about how to get your own baby name consultation from either Theresa or myself here.

For help with Marian names, my book, Catholic Baby Names for Girls and Boys: Over 250 Ways to Honor Our Lady (Marian Press, 2018), is available to order from ShopMercy.org and Amazon (not affiliate links). It’s perfect for expectant parents, name enthusiasts, and lovers of Our Lady!

“Official forms” and multiple middle names

sanctanomina Naming nitty gritty

A mama whose little one has two middle names asked me about how to handle the “middle initial” field on official forms, which is a question I’ve gotten with some frequency and have always answered with what I *think*, based on having a brother and two sisters with two middle names and hearing my mom’s frustration that the second middle was often ignored because there was no room for a second initial.

Today I did some research and found a more reliable source than myself: it took quite a few minutes of searching before I could find anything official (a lot of discussion posts though! A lot of people have this question!), but I did finally find this Employment Eligibility Form that explained what I think is the general practice on official forms in the U.S.:

“Your middle initial is the first letter of your second given name, or the first letter of your middle name, if any. If you have more than one middle name, enter the first letter of your first middle name. If you do not have a middle name, enter N/A in this field.”

I was also asked about a second middle name whose last letter was missing when the parents received the baby’s Social Security card in the mail — the mama wondered if there’s a character limit? Turns out there is! This article related the story of a woman who had a hard time getting all her names on her Social Security card, and someone from Social Security explained: 

“The first and middle name fields allow 16 characters each and the last name allows 21 characters.”

A space is considered a character, so the number of letters in the first middle name + the space + the number of letters in the second middle name all have to equal sixteen or less in order to fully appear on the Social Security card.

The article also said:

“… for the [Social Security] agency’s purposes a legal name consists of a first and last name only.”

So at least for Social Security, it shouldn’t matter that the second middle isn’t complete. For a passport, though, this site explains:

“The passport is a federally issued identification document so be sure to use your full legal name.

Middle names can be tricky when filling out your passport application, but don’t let that be the one factor that holds you back. A middle initial is acceptable on your passport instead of providing the full middle name. However, as a general rule of thumb, you should always enter your name as it appears on the documentation you present to prove your citizenship. This may include your social security number, drivers license, naturalization paperwork, and birth certificates.”

I would think, then, that someone who’s missing a letter on their Social Security card should present a birth certificate instead when getting forms of identification. Kind of crazy though, right?

** Please keep in mind that I am not a legal expert — if you have a situation like those mentioned here, consult someone who really knows! (Lawyer, Social Security rep, etc.) **

Read all about how to get your own baby name consultation from either Theresa or myself here.

For help with Marian names, my book, Catholic Baby Names for Girls and Boys: Over 250 Ways to Honor Our Lady (Marian Press, 2018), is available to order from ShopMercy.org and Amazon (not affiliate links). It’s perfect for expectant parents, name enthusiasts, and lovers of Our Lady!

Baby name consultation: Perfect middle name for Roman?

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , ,

Don’t you just love how Marian the month of September is?! We celebrated the Nativity of Our Lady on the 8th, the feast of the Most Holy Name of Mary on the 12th, and Our Lady of Sorrows on the 15th, and there are some lesser known ones like Our Lady of La Salette yesterday, Our Lady of Walsingham on the 24th, and Our Lady, Star of the Sea on the 25th. Such a great month!

Enjoy this week’s consultation from my co-baby name consultant Theresa Zoe Williams!

Mama Kelle writes,

“We have 6 biological children and have always dreamed of adopting. We have developed a super soft spot in our hearts for children with down Syndrome and have been pursuing special needs domestic adoption for more than a year. We have a girl name, but have always struggled with agreeing on boy names … We have semi agreed on the name Roman, but haven’t found any great middle names to go with it.”

What a wonderful thing this family is doing and the name Roman is just swoon-worthy!

Little Roman would join big siblings:

  • Hannah Claire
  • Genevieve “Genna” Marie
  • Isaac Thomas
  • Andrew “Drew” William
  • Benjamin Judah (He goes by both Benjamin and Judah)
  • Robert “Bob” or “Bobby” Cecil

What great names!

Kelle writes,

“My husband likes plain, common, Catholic names.  He’d be all over John Paul, but everyone has a John Paul. Other names that have been on past lists but never been quite right are Paul, Jacob, Peter, Matthew. I never liked those enough because they are so common. My husband had a friend named Roman that died a few years ago and that made him a little more open to it. Although he is not sold 100 percent on it. I’m hoping that a good middle name might solidify it for him … Names I like that he’s rejected are Duncan, Wesley, Matthias, Winceslas, Thaddeus. I mentioned using Joseph as a middle name since it’s the year of St. Joseph and he is a foster father. Don’t know how that sounds though with Roman. Any name following Roman sounds like Roman is an adjective.”

First, some thoughts on their shortlist.

Paul– Pretty common in Catholic circles, I agree. It is a great, solid name, though, but I don’t think it has the pizzazz of some of their other kids’ names.

Jacob– Lots of nickname potential here, which might make it more palatable for Kelle, because it is pretty “run of the mill” otherwise. Besides Jake, you can do Jack, or Jay. You could even do Coby! Or, stretching it just a bit, Kolbe. A nickname is probably what would sell this name for Kelle and help it fit in with the other kids better.

Peter– Personally, I love Peter. It’s a strong name (literally means “rock”!) and you can’t go wrong with all the patronages. It also has lots of pop culture ties, making it a name that can cross all boundaries. However, it is popular in Catholic circles, although not as popular as Paul.

Matthew– Another fairly vanilla name that’s still popular over every demographic. I saw this and was going to suggest Matthias as a variant, but then saw that Kelle likes Matthias but Brian (husband) does not! Oh well. There’s a better name out there for them that combines their styles and desires for a name.

Kelle mentioned Joseph as a possibility but that she didn’t want the child to be called Joseph and worried that he would. What about a different name that has the Jo- beginning to honor St. Joseph but is a little less popular? Names I thought of were Josiah, Joshua, Jonah, and Jonathan. There are lots of others!

Or maybe even an international version of Joseph? Jozef, Giuseppe, Jose, etc. The nice thing about Joseph is that it’s so flexible and can literally go with anything and take so many different forms and nicknames. I know a Joseph who goes by Seph, for example! Lots to think about with this name

On to new suggestions!

(1) Charles/Karl

There are lots of saints to go with these names and either would be a nice nod to John Paul II, whose birth name was Karol, another variant! It means “man” or “army/warrior” and wouldn’t that just be a fantastic name for a little Down syndrome warrior? Roman Charles and Roman Karl both sound so strong, too.

(2) Silas

A name I think Kelle may like more than Brian, but I’m hoping maybe to sell Brian on this. St. Silas (also known by the variant name Silvanus) was a companion of St. Paul and helped write a couple of the epistles. It’s a great, underused name that is uncommon but not weird. It means “wood, forest”, if that appeals to them at all. Roman Silas has a strong but unexpected feel.

(3) Gabriel

There are so many saints to go along with this name and it is fairly popular in Catholic circles, but Roman Gabriel just sounded so nice to me that I couldn’t not include it. Its meaning really sold me for them, “God is my strong man”. What a fantastic meaning for anyone! And something I know they want their children to be. This might be the best combining of styles for them.

(4) Oliver

Okay, this one is super popular but for good reason! It’s such a lovely name with several meanings (“olive tree”- I like the tie to peace and the faith with this meaning; “elf army”- meh lol; “ancestor’s descendent”- nice to think about the long line of people this little man would join). There’s also phenomenal saint, Oliver Plunkett to go with! Roman Oliver just rolls off the tongue nicely, too.

(5) Dominic

Again, a name fairly popular in Catholic circles but not overly popular. There are, of course, lots of saints for patronage, too. Roman Dominic just sounds so strong and good. The name also means “of the Lord” which is so cool!

(6) Jerome

I initially was going to leave this name off of the list but then thought how nice Roman Jerome sounds and put it back on. Tons of saints but a very underused name. It also means “sacred name” which is what they’re hoping to give this little fellow!

(7) Jude

Finally, a last minute addition. This name is fairly popular across the board, but especially in Catholic circles. However, it’s still just off the beaten path enough to not feel “plain”.  I think this one may be a good mixing of their styles, too.

What do you guys think?

I’m currently on hiatus from doing consultations, but Theresa Zoe Williams is available to help you! Email her at TheresaZoeWrites@gmail.com to set up your own consultation! (Payment methods remain the same.)

During my hiatus, please don’t forget about my book! Catholic Baby Names for Girls and Boys: Over 250 Ways to Honor Our Lady (Marian Press, 2018), is available to order from ShopMercy.org and Amazon (not affiliate links) — perfect for the expectant parents, name enthusiasts, and lovers of Our Lady in your life!

Baby name consultation: First baby boy needs biblical + early saint name

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , ,

Happy feast of Mary, Mother of the Church! I’ll resume tales of my excursion in Ireland later in the week! 😀

MaryEllen and her hubby are expecting their first baby — a boy! She writes,

“My name is MaryEllen Clare. The “Mary” half of my first name was chosen because my parents wanted to honor Our Lady and I was due December 8th but ended up being born on December 12th. The “Ellen” half of my first name was to honor a friend’s daughter. Clare was after St. Clare of Assisi.

My husband is Tyler Leandro. Leandro is his father’s name. Tyler is a convert to the faith from being a Protestant. He joined the Church 2 years ago!

We are hoping you can help give us some ideas for boy names. We both would love to use a Biblical and/or early Saint name. My husband was an Ancient History major in college and we both took Latin in high school/college. He would love to use a strong, Ancient Latin name. It’s a definite bonus if it’s a Saint from 400 AD or older.

We pray the Liturgy of the Hours and particularly like Matins, with the First Reading from the Bible and the Second Reading from Church fathers. You’ll see that in our list below.

Names on our (not so) short list:
Ambrose
Augustine (though we’re hesitant on the nickname, “Gus”)
Benedict
Clement
Isaac (is a patriarch okay? My husband and I like the story of Isaac and Rebecca)
Leo (awesome Pope)
Linus (we don’t agree on this one, the pagan history of the name bothers my husband but I really like that its part of the litany in Mass).
Maximus (we both love the movie Gladiator)
Nicholas (after the Saint, but mostly for the Council of Nicea)
Paul (husband’s confirmation saint)
Titus (again, we don’t agree — my husband likes it, me less so)

Names we’ve talked about but aren’t considering using:
Popular names (James, David, Jacob, Joshua, Thomas, Andrew, etc.)
Atticus (avoiding To Kill a Mockingbird)
Francis (my father’s name)
Jonathan (my brother’s name)
Michael (don’t like nickname “Mike”)
Xavier (cool saint, just don’t like the name)“

Alrighty, so right off the bat I latched onto MaryEllen’s hubby’s middle name/her father-in-law’s first name — St. Leander comes from the right time period-ish (died about the year 600, so a little later than 400 … but not by much!) and was actually Spanish (older brother of St. Isidore) so his name was actually Leandro — it’s such a cool name!! If they can’t get on board with it for a first name, maybe it would make a great middle name? Could be great for grandfather, father, and son to all share a name, especially since it fits their criteria so well. It could also take the nickname Leo, which loops in a name on their list!

Speaking of their list, just some quick thoughts about some of the names on it, before getting to my suggestions (I love them all, and my hubby and I considered almost all of them at various points!):

Augustine can be Augie, which is fairly popular among parents of boys with August- names.

Clement is fantastic, but it makes me think of something that might be helpful when they’re whittling down their list: it would be good for MaryEllen and her hubby to think about what they plan to call their son on an everyday basis, i.e., are they big nicknamers? Or will they prefer to use the whole name? If they prefer the whole name, will they be okay with others using a nickname when he’s in high school, for example? Clem isn’t the kind of nickname that everyone likes, so Clement is a good name to think about this particular issue with. (Blogger Grace Patton just named her son Clement, SO cute!!)

Re: Isaac, yes, patriarchs are definitely okay! I even wrote about this issue here. And if they really want a non-biblical saintly connection, St. Isaac Jogues is pretty awesome.

I don’t know if Mary Ellen’s hubby would be swayed by seeing other Catholic babies named Linus, but I’ve been seeing it more and more! I posted this birth announcement in April, and this little guy has a brother named Linus (and a brother named Ambrose too!), just to give two examples.

When I asked my husband his impression of the name Titus, he said, “50% biblical, 50% ancient Latin” — he actually said “ancient Latin,” just like MaryEllen said in her email!

From Mary Ellen’s list of names they aren’t considering because they’re too popular, the ones she mentioned are in the top 50, but so is Leo (no. 50) and Isaac (no. 34) from the names they are considering, so I think maybe the names they’re not as interested in are those that are *familiar*: they don’t want to use the names that were the bastions of popularity in the past, that feel overdone and ubiquitous because we grew up hearing them, even though they aren’t nearly as popular now as they were. For example, Thomas was a top ten name basically from 1900 until 1966; currently, at no. 49, it’s less popular than names like Asher, Jaxon, Dylan, Wyatt, and Oliver, all of which I would guess feel fresh to those parents who think Thomas/Andrew/David are too popular for their taste. Not that this is either here or there, but reframing their requirements from “not popular” to “not familiar” might be helpful.

Regarding Michael, if the nickname Mike is what’s holding them up, I wonder if they would consider a different nickname? Something like Michael Xavier or Michael Alexander, for example, could nickname to Max. Or, I’ve sometimes suggested Miles as a nickname for Michael, which means “soldier” in Latin, which is kind of a cool way to get some Latin in there, and reinforces the Michael the Warrior Archangel idea. I’m not trying to convince MaryEllen and her hubs of a name they don’t care for, I promise! I just want to offer options in case they’re helpful.

Now for my suggestions! You all know that I always start a consultation by looking up the names the parents like/are considering in the Baby Name Wizard book as it lists, for each entry, boy and girl names that are similar in terms of style/feel/popularity. I did so here, which was helpful, but I also looked at lists of biblical names (both Old and New Testament) and the Church Fathers and dug around in my own namey mind and book, and anything that seemed like it might be a name they’d like, I added to the list. I have a lot of suggestions!

(1) Tiberius
First, there’s a St. Tiberius who was martyred ca. 303 — perfect from a date perspective! Tiberius is also a Latin name — perfect from a Latin perspective! And it means “of the Tiber [River],” and many of you know that converts to Catholicism talk about “crossing the Tiber” or being part of the “Tiber Swim Team 2017” or whatever year they converted. So many levels of meaning for this family! Ty is a really cute, easy nickname, and I actually love that it mirrors Dad’s name — kind of like a Junior without doing a Junior! Tiberius Leandro?? ((heart eyes!)) If they prefer a simpler middle name though, to offset the heavier first name, I love Tiberius Paul — also another way of kind of Junioring without using Dad’s exact name, since Paul is Tyler’s Confirmation name, and the short-and-sweet Paul is a perfect balance to Tiberius (and it’s biblical! Biblical + pre-400 saint!).

(2) Tobias or Tobit
Sticking with T names for a minute, I love both Tobias and Tobit! They’re variants of each other, and I can never decide which one I like better. Since they’re biblical, it would be great to pair them with a non-biblical saintly name — Tobias Leandro and Tobit Leandro are both pretty amazing! I also like Augustine with them both.

(3) Thaddeus
Another T name! I love the name Thaddeus — it’s biblical and saintly (St. Jude Thaddeus, among others), and the nickname Taddy is beyond adorable for a little guy. Tad is handsome for a teenager and a man, as is the full Thaddeus. Thaddeus Leandro and Thaddeus Paul are both great in my opinion; I also quite like Thaddeus Ambrose and Thaddeus Clement.

(4) Gregory
I’m actually surprised they don’t have Gregory on their list! Pope St. Gregory the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and St. Gregory of Nazianzen are all Church Fathers; the name Gregory is serious but accessible; and at no. 408 it’s definitely not too popular. If they don’t care for Greg as a nickname — and a lot of parents I know who consider Gregory don’t care for Greg — Grey and Rory are two nicknames I’ve seen used. Gregory Clement sounds really nice! Or Gregory Nicholas — two Pope St. the Greats! I also like Gregory Maximus and Gregory Leandro.

(5) Ephraim/Ephrem
I was kind of excited to remember that St. Ephrem of Syria is considered one of the Church Fathers — he’s an early saint with a biblical name! In the bible it’s usually seen as Ephraim, while the saint is usually Ephrem, but since they’re variants of the same name, they can choose their favorite spelling! I like how Ephraim/Ephrem Leo, Ephraim/Ephrem Leandro, and Ephraim/Ephrem Isaac sound.

(6) Nicodemus
Nicholas on their list made me think of Nicodemus, which has a heavier, more ancient feel. They can still use the nicknames Nic and Nicky, or Nico, while having a more unexpected and less familiar name. Nicodemus Clement has a nice flow, I think, as does Nicodemus Leandro.

(7) Casper/Jasper/Gaspar
Though the Three Wise Men weren’t named in the bible, they’ve traditionally been known as Balthazar, Melchior, and Casper/Caspar/Jasper/Gaspar (they’re all variants of the same name). I could see MaryEllen and her hubs liking Casper/Caspar, Jasper, or Gaspar! I like Leo, Leandro, Clement, and Isaac as middle names for this family of names.

(8) Sebastian
Like Gregory, Sebastian is a name that I’m surprised isn’t already on their list! It’s got that heavy feel of Augustine and Benedict, but the nicknames Seb(by) and Bash lighten it up. He died ca. 288, making him date-appropriate! One caveat is that the name Sebastian is currently at no. 18. Sebastian Leo, Sebastian Leandro, Sebastian Paul, and Sebastian Isaac are all great combos.

(9) Callixtus (or Callistus)
It’s the name of a pope who is a saint, and he died in the third century, so he’s the right time period. I love the connection to the word “chalice,” and the nickname Cal. I spotlighted the name here. Callixtus Michael and Callixtus Paul are a nice mix of heavy and trim.

(10) Boethius
My last idea is Boethius, after St. Severinus Boethius, someone I never knew anything about until one of my readers asked me about the name Boethius, because her hubby is a philosopher and so was St. Boethius. Such a cool name! And I’ve seen him called “Last of the Romans,” which might be awesome for Tyler’s interests. I love Boethius Benedict, and Boethius Leandro sounds great too.

Those are all my main ideas, but there were a whole bunch of others that I considered putting on the list and ultimately left off for various reasons — I thought I’d include them here just in case: Bartholomew, Gabriel, Raphael, Matthias, Nathaniel, Cassius or Cassian, Zechariah, Ignatius, and Athanasius.

MaryEllen said they’d also really like some suggestions on how to pair names up in good first + middle combos:

“The middle name for our little boy doesn’t need to be of family origin; mostly we’re looking for two names that flow well together with our M last name.”

The ones I mentioned above are:

Tiberius Leandro
Tiberius Paul
Tobias Leandro
Tobias Augustine
Tobit Leandro
Tobit Augustine
Thaddeus Leandro
Thaddeus Paul
Thaddeus Ambrose
Thaddeus Clement
Gregory Clement
Gregory Nicholas
Gregory Maximus
Gregory Leandro
Ephraim/Ephrem Leo
Ephraim/Ephrem Leandro
Ephraim/Ephrem Isaac
Nicodemus Clement
Nicodemus Leandro
Casper/Jasper/Gaspar Leo
Casper/Jasper/Gaspar Leandro
Casper/Jasper/Gaspar Clement
Casper/Jasper/Gaspar Isaac
Sebastian Leo
Sebastian Leandro
Sebastian Paul
Sebastian Isaac
Callixtus Michael
Callixtus Paul
Boethius Benedict
Boethius Leandro

As you can see, I went right for the family names! Haha! Leandro is just an amazing name to work with! Moving away from family names though, generally my personal preference is to pair a shorter first name with a longer middle or vice versa, or a medium length first with a medium length middle. From ME and T’s list, Paul is a perfect short name to balance out the longer names like Augustine, Benedict, Maximus, and Nicholas. I quite like Paul as a middle name for any of those names, and flipping to Paul Augustine or Paul Maximus is really nice too.

Middling names like Ambrose, Clement, Isaac, Leo (three letters but still two syllables!), and Linus sound nice together I think, like Ambrose Clement, Isaac Ambrose, Leo Clement, Linus Ambrose, Linus Clement.

Another tactic I like with first+middle combos is to balance an unusual name with a more familiar one. Callixtus Michael, for example, or Nicholas Ephraim. I also love alliteration, like Boethius Benedict and Casper Clement.

I also really like Leo Maximus (kind of cool that this pretty much means “Leo the Great”!), and Linus Paul.

Those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What name(s) — first and/or middle and combos — would you suggest for MaryEllen and Tyler’s baby boy?

My book, Catholic Baby Names for Girls and Boys: Over 250 Ways to Honor Our Lady (Marian Press, 2018), is available to order from ShopMercy.org and Amazon — perfect for the expectant parents, name enthusiasts, and lovers of Our Lady in your life!

Birth announcement: McDonald John!

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Grace and I had an email conversation about middle names a while ago, and she’s let me know her little guy has been born and been given the handsome and meaningful name … McDonald John!

Grace writes,

“I wanted to finally report back on what we ended up naming our baby!

Our son was born October 1 and we named him McDonald John. We’re calling him Mac. John was the name of my father’s only brother who passed away suddenly and fairly young a few years ago. After I got your email we talked mostly about John and one other idea and just really couldn’t settle on one or the other but after spending time with my dad one day and talking about his brother a lot I came home and was just overwhelmed with tears thinking about how much it would mean to my dad to have a grandson named after his brother so we settled on John. As I predicted, my dad was super touched and that means so much to me.”

McDonald is a family name for Grace — I love when family surnames work as first names! And I love love love love the nickname Mac, one of my favorites! And I love how meaningful the middle name is for Grace’s dad. Honor names can just be so amazing!

Congratulations to Grace and her hubby, and happy birthday Baby Mac!!

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McDonald John

Birth announcement: Mathilde Agnes Julia Frances!

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I had the great pleasure of posting a birth announcement for reader Isabelle’s second boy two years ago, and she’s let me know that she’s had a third baby — a little girl! She’s been given the gorgeous names Mathilde Agnes Julia Frances!

Isabelle writes,

“So, we have two boys (you posted a birth announcement for our second, Gabriel Nicolas Peter, our eldest is Jude René Marc) and for both of them, the names were fairly easy to find. I had liked Gabriel since I was a teenager, and always intended to use it, but by the time I got pregnant with my first I was feeling more “Jude”. My husband was happy either way, and we pretended to ourselves for a while like we hadn’t decided (we totally had, we never seriously considered any alternative).

When we found out our second was a boy too, Gabriel was the obvious choice, and again although we told ourselves we were considering other options, we really weren’t. All the while, our girl name was all chosen and waiting for a future girl: Alice. But two months after Gabriel was born, my cousin had gorgeous twin girls: Madeleine and Alice.

Fast forward a few months and I am pregnant again. And we’re stumped. A few boys names are swimming about (Nicolas? Can we use a middle name as a subsequent sibling’s given name? Methink we can) but for girls, it was getting complicated fast. I suggested we go for Alice anyway, but it felt a bit too soon. We loved Juliette, but Jude-Gabriel-Juliette felt a bit repetitive, so again, we felt we needed a few more names in the middle before using Juliette. That’s when I contacted you about consultations, but we decided to wait to find out the gender and then ask you if we were still stumped.

We discovered we were expecting a girl shortly afterwards, and my husband (who normally leaves me to talk names at him) was suddenly pushing for Virginia, he’s grandmother’s name (with the intention of nicknaming her “Ginny”, like his grandmother was). Whilst I really liked Ginny, I didn’t want Virginia, or use a nickname as a given name (I’m helpful like that). Besides, Ginny broke our rule (We’re a French-English couple, so we really try to choose names which are the same, or near enough in both languages – Jude was a stretch for the French since it is vanishingly rare as a French given name, people are much more likely to use the “Thadée” form to honour that apostle, but Jude is in the Bible so we went for it).

My long-suffering husband then offered Genevieve as another way to get to Ginny and still honour his grandmother, and whilst I love the sound of it in English, and it is spelled exactly the same way (with added accent in French) I couldn’t really get over the “middle-aged woman” feel the name has for me (due to when the name was popular in France). So stumped again.

I was starting to remind him that you offered a very handy service for people in our situation, when, in a totally unrelated instance of spousal awesomeness, my husband took me to Vienna for a little getaway just the two (and a half) of us. So here I am, on the train from the airport, doing what any self-respecting former PhD candidate in history would do, reading up on the history of Vienna and the Habsburg family, when suddenly, in a random paragraph about the Holy Roman Empire, I come across saint Matilda (she’s awesome). And that’s it. My husband is fully on board (although he pretends like he still favours Elisabeth for a few days), but he wants to spell it the French way, but pronounce it the English way when we speak in English (so, spelled “Mathilde”, pronounced “Matilda”). I’m ok with that. We decide the middle names will be the grandmothers (Agnes and Julia) job done.

Except, not quite.

Plot twist: giantly pregnant by then and extremely overdue, I am given a date for my induction: 9 July. Simon’s sister’s birthday. His sister passed away at just sixteen – she had a brain tumour. Feeling like we can’t just ignore the coincidence, we think of ways to honour Hannah in our little girl’s name and decide to just add a third middle name, even though Simon’s other sister already used “Hannah” as a middle name for her daughter.

Plot twist again: the induction is pushed back to the 10th. What do we do? Without the same birthday, Simon doesn’t feel right about copying his niece’s middle name (I have no such qualms, but then I come from a giant Catholic family where repeats are a fact of life). So I push for Hannah’s middle name, Frances. (I am a big fan of Saint Frances of Rome, and was planning on using “Francesca” as a future middle name – as soon as the grandmothers had been dutifully honoured (another French thing here, people almost always honour family members with middle names, so grandparents would take offence)).

And that was finally that (well, after the quickest, most ridiculously eventful labour).

Mathilde Agnes Julia Frances. Born in 45 minutes on 10 July 2017. All the names, all the saints.”

Can you believe that story?! Amazing! And I love love love all of Mathilde’s names!!

Congratulations to Isabelle and her husband and big brothers Jude and Gabriel, and happy birthday Baby Mathilde!!

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Mathilde Agnes Julia Frances

Double middle names?

sanctanomina Naming nitty gritty

A reader was asking me about double middle names so I looked up all my posts on middle names and was surprised to see that I hadn’t written about them yet! Surprised because I feel like I do discuss them with some frequency in my email discussions with parents. It’s definitely time to post here and get your feedback!

My thought is that two middle names is fine. I have two brothers and three sisters, and one of my brothers and two of my sisters have two middle names, and I’ve never heard any of them complain about them. Even now, as adults, they include all their initials when they’re writing out their full names. I know my mom has told me that sometimes the second middle would get dropped (not enough room on forms, or a bureaucratic decision or misunderstanding by some official person to only include one middle), which irritated her as the mom, and she and Dad even hyphenated my youngest sister’s two middles to try to avoid that, but otherwise it hasn’t ruined anyone’s lives.

If you didn’t want the hassle (or didn’t want to saddle your child with the hassle) of two middles but you have two middle names you’d like to use, you could do what this mom did and only put one middle on the birth certificate — thus having his/her legal name be First Middle — but everywhere else in life (within the family, when you’re telling others, on the baptismal certificate, etc.) use First Middle Middle. I think this is such a great solution for certain families! And I think the idea of one’s “legal name” being different from one’s “real name” to be an interesting thing to muse on.

What do you all think about double middle names? Do you have two middle names? Do you like them? Hate them? Feel indifferent? Do you all feel like it’s an unnecessary burden for a child, or a reasonable way to work in all the names you want to use?

The legality of Confirmation names, and going by a different name than your legal name

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I was going through some paperwork of my father-in-law’s yesterday and found the court order legally changing his last name from the consonant-heavy surname his father brought with him from Poland to an English surname that shares enough sounds with the original Polish surname to make sense of the change. Though my FIL died when my husband was small, we’ve always known that he and his siblings legally changed their surname, so that wasn’t a surprise — but what was a surprise was that, in the documents, I read that my FIL had been using this new English surname his whole life. He’d been registered under it in school and had it on his high school diploma, and according to the document, “All records of employment, registration under the Selective Service Act, and voting records” had already, always, been under the new English surname, despite the fact that he didn’t apply for the legal change until he was 25. So interesting, right?!

One question that my husband and I have had that wasn’t answered by this document, though, is when and how he took his Confirmation name as his legal middle name (he hadn’t been given a middle name at birth). This document has his full name as including the Confirmation-as-middle, but no mention of making it so legally, so I assume it had already been done. Or not? Maybe it didn’t need to be? This was back in the 50’s, and also, even now, in New York State anyway (which is where I am and where my FIL lived his whole life), you can go by any name you want without getting a legal name change. According to the New York State Unified Court System,

“In New York State, you have the right to adopt any name you wish by using that name for everything in your life. This does not apply to children or prison inmates. But, it may be better to legally change your name because most government agencies will not accept your name change without a court order.

You can ask the court to legally change the name you were given at birth, adoption or marriage.”

And indeed, in my FIL’s application for legal name change, he wrote that having his surname legally changed to the surname he’d always used “will prevent confusion and possible legal difficulties for me in the future.” So I wonder if his usage of his Confirmation name as his middle name was just one of those things — he just started using it, and that was fine, and no one bothered about it, and it became so established as his middle name (or it was such a common practice for people to do that kind of thing) that he didn’t even feel the need to explicitly mention it in his application for his surname change? (In preparing to write this post this morning, I re-read this article I’d written for CatholicMom on middle names — I found it so interesting all over again! Haha!)

Anyway, that reminded me of something I read recently about Confirmation names actually having usage in real life that I’d wanted to share with you. This is from the Christian Names entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) on New Advent:

“The practice of adopting a new name was not limited to baptism. Many medieval examples show that any notable change of condition, especially in the spiritual order, was often accompanied by the reception of a new name. In the eighth century the two Englishmen, Winfrith and Willibald, going on different occasions to Rome received from the reigning pontiff, along with a new commission to preach, the names respectively of Boniface and Clement. So again Emma of Normandy, when she married King Ethelred in 1002, took the name Ælfgifu; while, of course, the reception of a new name upon entering a religious order is almost universal even in our day. It is not strange, then, that at confirmation, in which the interposition of a godfather emphasizes the resemblance with baptism, it should have become customary to take a new name, though usually no great use is made of it. In one case, however, that of Henry III, King of France — who being the godson of our English Edward VI had been christened Edouard Alexandre in 1551 — the same French prince at confirmation received the name of Henri, and by this he afterwards reigned. Even in England the practice of adopting a new name at confirmation was remembered after the Reformation, for Sir Edward Coke declares that a man might validly buy land by his confirmation name, and he recalls the case of a Sir Francis Gawdye, late Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, whose name of baptism was Thomas and his name of confirmation Francis (Co. Litt. 3a).”

I’d never heard a story like that about Confirmation names before!

You know I’m always interested in hearing personal, real-life, interesting name stories, so feel free to share!

Baby name consultation: Baby no. 9 needs a name that’s not generally popular nor Catholic popular (and a few other rules!)

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I hope all the dads had a wonderful Father’s Day yesterday!!

Kym and her husband are expecting their ninth baby — their fifth girl! She joins big sibs:

Alexandra Ruthmarie
Cassian William
Killian Michael
Bennett Jameson
Anneliese Francesca
Marigold Camillus
Miles Jonas
Sylvie Regina

Aren’t these amazing names?? I’ve actually referenced Kym’s little Sylvie Regina many times in posts and conversations because of how clever I think it is that it sounds like Salve Regina (“Hail Holy Queen”) — I love that!! And another really cool thing is that each first name has the same number of letters as its middle name. Didn’t they do a great job?!

Kym has a bunch of naming rules, and you know me — the more the merrier! I love a good challege! 😁 She writes,

“First names that we cannot use:
Anything that infringes upon their middles or their nicknames. Examples:
No variations on Anne or Elizabeth since we already have Anneliese (Anne-Elizabeth).
Nothing Marian-that-starts-with-M since we already have a child often called Mary, etc.

No common first names or names often heard in Catholic circles:
Rose, Therese, Mary-Agnes, Bernadette, Zelie — all would be out.

Family and close friend names we cannot use include:
Gabriela, Sophia, Bridget, Rebekah, Anna, Felicity, Genevieve, Anastasia, Abigail, Azelie, Clare, Bernadette, Gianna, Emilia, Eleanor

I’d rather not have any more names that start with an A, M, S, or a hard C/K sound.

See how picky I am? And I haven’t even gotten to the rules yet! 🙂

Rules are:
First name must be a saint, or version of a saint’s name, or a holy association (like Marigold: Mary’s gold).
Middle name should be a family name.
Both first and middle should have the same number of letters. I noticed we had been doing this accidentally with kids 1-4, and when kids 5 and 6 also followed the pattern without intending it, we decided that’s just what we’d keep doing. Kids 7&8 worked out perfectly, too. We’ve never had to force a middle name we didn’t want just to make it work.

Potential family names we can use (feminize them or change them a bit to fit the same-number-of-letters rule) are: Luke, Rosa, DeeLane, Marcella …

First names that hubby really, really likes are Vianney and Juniper. So, Vianney Rosalie or Juniper Rosalie. Vianney is one of my favorite saints and has been on the list since our first child was conceived 13 years ago, but the name doesn’t suit me this time for some reason. And, while I really am drawn to Juniper Rosalie, I’m not sure if it’s too unisex of a name. I’m not thrilled with giving a daughter a name that isn’t easily recognized as being a female name. Alexandra, Anneliese, Marigold, and Sylvie just scream GIRL and Juniper ….doesn’t. Also, sometimes the “nipper” at the end bothers me. But the potential NN of Juni is pretty darn cute.

I really, really, REALLY like (but don’t love) the name Gemma and keep coming back to it. It’s delicate, girly, and sweet. Hubby proposed Gemma Lucia. We’ve wanted to name a baby after hubby’s godfather, Brother Luke, for a long time. Lucia works very well but I’m just not sold on it – Lucia to me right now seems so Catholic on-trend because of this being the year of the anniversary of Fatima, and Gemma sounds almost sounds too worldly/trendy. Maybe I’m being too picky. Argh! This is so tough!!!

A name that keeps popping into my head over and over is Goretti. I don’t even know where it came from since I’ve never before considered that to be a name, but it’s growing on me. I don’t know what would possibly work for a NN, though, and Retti and Retta are not something I’d like. Greta/Gretta could be used as a NN – and Greta it was a runner up with the last baby. But I’ve somewhat grown away from it.

I think Zoe(y) is precious but it’s so short and I don’t think it ages well. Hubby and I also like Savina but we aren’t convinced we want an S girl following another S girl. We’ve always liked the name Benedicta but we already have a Bennett. I like Isadora but hubby says no. I don’t think we can do any old lady names, as much as I like some of them. So no Imelda or Edith or Agatha or Leona/Leonie or Millicent. Gosh, I think Millicent is adorable though.”

Alright, I spent a lot of time on this, and I’m still not sure of my ideas! I actually had the privilege of doing a private consultation for Kym when Sylvie was on the way and, looking back at it, I had to cross three names off the list of ones I was going to recommend here because I’d suggested them before! I also found the rules about not wanting common names difficult because the names I’d usually go to for parents who don’t want top ten are the ones that are Catholic-common, which are also out per Kym’s rules! Amazing! I’m not being critical at all, it’ll be so satisfying if I can actually come up with something they might like!

I love both Vianney Rosalie and Juniper Rosalie, gorgeous! I see what Kym means though about Juniper feeling a bit too unisex next to her other girls’ names. Unfortunately, feel similarly about Vianney — though my major association with it as a current first name is Lindsay’s daughter from My Child I Love You, so it feels mostly feminine to me, a bunch of you have suggested it for boys on past posts, and one who said that because it’s exclusively male where she lives (France) using it for a girl would be akin to “a girl called John or Andrew.” I’m not campaigning against it! Just, if obviously feminine is their goal, neither Vianney nor Juniper might be quite right. On the other hand though … I so totally agree with Kym about Juni!!

Gemma Lucia is a fantastic combo! I definitely wouldn’t characterize Gemma as “too worldly/trendy” — sure, it has use outside of Catholic circles, and it has increased in popularity fairly rapidly since it entered the top 1000 in 2008 (it’s currently at no. 247), but I don’t see it as any different than their other kids’ names, all of which fit nicely into certain non-Catholic trends and popular sounds. I think it’s a great fit! As for Lucia being “Catholic on-trend,” I mean yes, it certainly is because of the Year of Fatima, but if you’re going to use it, using it during its big year is so great! But perhaps a different five-letter middle would be a better fit for them for Gemma? Tapping into the family names they want to use as middles, maybe Gemma Roser? Roser is a Catalan feminine form of Rosario, which points back to Rose (rosaries are so named because they’re meant to be thought of as a crown or bouquet of roses for Our Lady). Or Gemma Zella, where Zella is the German diminutive for Marcella?

I really like Goretti! And I do think Gret(t)a could work nicely as a nickname for it, or maybe Greer, especially as both Greer and Goretti come from Gregory. Etti (Eddy) could be cute too. I think there’s a chance that people they meet outside their Catholic circle might not be familiar, and so it might come across like Vianney and Juniper in the sense of not being very girly, but certainly Catholics should know it refers to a female saint. It reminds me of Cabrini, which I would have suggested to them if Kym hadn’t said no C/K names.

I love Zoe(y) too, and Savina’s cute too … Benedicta’s great, but Bennett … Isadora, Imelda, Edith, Agatha, Leona/Leonie, and Millicent are all a great bunch of names! And I actually don’t think of Leonie and Millicent as old lady names anymore — I have a cousin who’s 14 named Millicent/Millie, so it stopped being an old lady name to me ages ago, and while I know an old lady named Leona, I’ve only heard Leonie on more recent families wanting to honor St. Therese’s sister, so it too has a more youthful feel. And Edith’s coming back! I know a bunch of families who have considered it, and at least two who have named their babies Edith (here and here).

So those are my thoughts on the names Kym and her hubs have discussed/are considering; now on to my own ideas! I was mostly influenced by their seeming desire to have this baby girl have a name that’s as girly as their older girls’ names. I did use the Baby Name Wizard for inspiration, but I went more by my gut than anything. The names that I had on my final list that I crossed off because I’d suggested them last time were Verity, Juliet(te), and Elodie, all of which are consistent with this family’s style per the BNW, and all of which I still like for them in case they want to reconsider them. And I also really wanted to suggest Klaudia to them, as they were considering Klaus if the baby had been a boy, so if they wanted to reconsider their C/K rule I think it would be great! (Or Colette, if they like the idea of a Nicholas name for a girl. I love Colette.)

My new ideas are:

(1) Vesper
I think this name is unmistakably feminine, unlike Vianney and Juniper, and in sound it’s almost like a mashup of Vianney and Juniper. Its Catholic connection comes from “vespers” being the name for Evening Prayer in the Liturgy of the Hours, but others might also know it as one of the Bond girls! I like the idea of Vesper Roisin (Roisin is an Irish Rose name, pronounced ro-SHEEN, and spelled in Irish as Róisín), and there’s actually a variety of rose called the Vesper Rose!

(2) Junia
This was actually the first idea I had for this baby, after seeing that Kym loves Juni but was uncertain about Juniper. Junia’s the name of a woman in the bible (some believe it was meant to be the man’s name Junius, others translated it as Julia, but the bible as presented by the U.S. bishops on their web site says Junia). One of the Hanson brothers (MMMBop) has a daughter named Junia Rosa Ruth, which is gorgeous. Junia Lucia would work, but maybe too matchy? Maybe Junia Lucie would work better? Junia Roser and Junia Zella are also fine.

(3) Delia
This was one of those gut-feeling names. It’s pretty and feminine and can be a short form of Adelia, which is a variant of Adela (several saints and blesseds so named), or Bedelia, which is an Irish diminutive of Bridget (but Kym said no to Bridget, not sure if this would count?) (there’s also Cordelia, which has no saint connections as far as I can tell). Like with Junia, Delia Lucia/Lucie, Delia Roser, and Delia Zella can all work. It also feels really close to DeeLane (from their list of potential middles) sound-wise, but I’m not sure what to do with that. (I also wondered if Delaney would make a do-able DeeLane tweak?)

(4) Edessa
Our Lady of Edessa is one of Mary’s titles — Edessa is the old name for modern-day Urfa in Turkey, and the title refers to an old miraculous image. It’s a lovely, feminine, non-M Marian name! I like Edessa Roisin.

(5) Natalia
This was suggested by my research in the BNW and I love it for this family! It’s feminine and gorgeous and really saintly — there are two that I know of — and fun nickname options like Natty, Tally, Talia, Lia, and Nolly. Natalia Rosalie is so beautiful! Natalia Lucille can also work for their Br. Luke, and Natalia DeeLane (or Natalia Delaney) also works, letter-wise.

(6) Zara
I loooove this idea because of what I discovered about it recently! First off, it’s a style match for both Gemma and Zoe, which I thought was so interesting, and it’s definitely uncommon in all circles. I wasn’t sure about saintly connections though, and when I went looking I discovered that it’s a Bulgarian diminutive of Zaharina, which is the Bulgarian and Macedonian feminine form of Zechariah! Wow!! (Hence the spotlight I put up here.) Zara Rose is pretty, but maybe too R heavy? Zara Lucy maybe, or Zara Luce (not only a nod to Br. Luke and Fatima but also Bl. Chiara Luce Badano)? Would Zara Lane work as a nod to their DeeLane?

(7) Esme
Esme’s a style match for Sylvie, and I’ve always thought it’s sweet and feminine. Being that it means “esteemed” or “loved” in Old French, they could make a holy association to Mater Amata (“Beloved Mother”). Esme Rose is gorgeous! It can also be spelled Esmee (Esmée), which could open up Lucia, Lucie, and Zella as middles.

And those are all my ideas! What do you all think? What name(s) would you suggest for the little sister for this well-named crew?

Baby name consultation: non-M Marian middle name for a baby girl

sanctanomina Baby name consultant , , ,

Happy Memorial Day everyone! It’s so fitting that we have a day to remember and pray for all those who have died in service to our country. Today has also been declared a Day of Prayer for Permanent Peace — imagine what all our rosaries could do for this intention! I was so struck by the realization that this year — the 100th anniversary of Fatima — is also the 100th anniversary of the beginning of WWI. What a century it’s been. God bless and protect our troops, and God bless and protect America! 🦅🗽🙏

I had the great pleasure of posting a birth announcement for Shannon and her husband’s first baby, and I’m delighted now to post a consultation for their second baby on earth — a little green bean (=gender unknown)! 🌱 This little one joins:

Caroline Mary
Therese (with Jesus)

I remember being so blown away by the simple elegance of Caroline Mary’s name when Shannon shared her birth announcement, just lovely!

For this baby, they’re set with a boy’s name, but wanted help with a middle name for a girl. Shannon writes,

“For girl names, we’re really thinking of Catherine (after Catherine of Siena of course), and our first choice for middle name right now is Marie. But we wanted to see if you had any other middle name suggestions that go with Catherine. You may remember we have Caroline Mary, who you helped us name (we LOVE her name and its significance). One potential hesitation with Catherine Marie is that it is somewhat similar (and shares the same initials) as Caroline Mary.  We named our second baby, who I miscarried in August, Therese (I was so comforted thinking about the baby going straight into Jesus’ arms, like St. Therese wanting to go straight up to Jesus on an elevator).  We would consider using Therese as a middle name.

If we go with Catherine Marie, it seems like we’re setting a precedent with Marian middle names (or perhaps we can just have a Marian influence in each name a la John Paul, etc.) — we’re definitely okay with this! As you may recall from our earlier emails, we like classic, traditional names. (Catholic, obviously!) We are trying to avoid nicknames, as much as we can, but for a middle name, that’s not really an issue.  Our last name is Lynch, so we’re also a little wary of “L” names.”

So you all have to know how much I loved working on this! I’m always excited to come up with Marian names! Like Shannon, I love the idea of a Marian name being part of her daughters’ names—it’s a great precedent to set! And a very traditional one! In my own family, my parents made a point to give each of their daughters (four of us) a Marian name (we each have a different one). It’s also very traditional for all the girls in a family to have the *same* Marian name—we see this in St. Therese’s family, where her and all of her sisters’ first names were Marie. I love too that Shannon and her hubs have a sense of including a Marian connection in their boy names as well!

When I was coming up with new middle name ideas for them, I focused a lot on trying to come up with non-M Marian names (especially shorter ones, since Catherine is so long, so I didn’t include Immaculata, for example), and I also came up with a couple others that they might find intriguing:

(1) Catherine Rose
I think this is my favorite idea for this little lady. Rose is a Marian name for lots of different reasons: she’s the Mystical Rose (Rosa Mystica); the rosary is so named because it’s meant to represent a crown of roses for Our Lady; and she’s appeared with roses, as at Lourdes and Guadalupe. But—and I was so excited to realize this!—it can also be a nod to St. Therese and therefore their little one in heaven! Double whammy! And Catherine Rose is a really lovely name, with a similar elegant simplicity as Caroline Mary.

(2) Catherine Grace
Catherine Grace also has that elegance and simplicity I get from Caroline Mary and Catherine Rose. Our Lady of Grace would be the Marian reference of course.

(3) Catherine Eve (or Eva, Ava, or Ave)
Mary is the New Eve, so Eve can be considered a Marian name, and Catherine Eve is really pretty. Eva and Ava are both variants of Eve, and I quite like how Catherine Eva/Ava sound (I say them the same, but you could also say EE-va for Eva). A more unusual choice that’s similar is Ave, said AH-vay, like Ave Maria (Hail Mary). Catherine Ave would be really unusual but still simple and sweet. There’s a stanza in the Ave Stella Maris (Hail Star of the Sea) hymn that says, “O! By Gabriel’s Ave, Uttered long ago, Eva’s name reversing, Established peace below.” So that’s a cool connection too between Ave, Eve, and Mary (and Stella Maris, for a bonus Marian connection).

(4) Catherine Pieta
This would certainly be an unusual choice, but the image of the Pieta seems a fitting one for a mom who’s suffered the loss of a child, and could make an intriguing middle name, especially since they’re already thinking of perhaps using their miscarried baby’s name for this baby’s middle.

(5) Catherine Dolores
Along that same way of thinking, Dolores is from Our Lady’s title Our Lady of Sorrows (Nuestra Señora de los Dolores in Spanish)—Catherine Dolores sounds sort of retro and chic, and I don’t think the L of Dolores sounds problematic with Lynch.

(6) Catherine Zelie (or Catherine Azelie) (or Catherine Tess)
This was inspired by their little Therese. Another way of linking to her in Catherine’s name could be by using her mom’s name. They could use the name she goes by—Zelie—or the longer version that was part of her given name, Azelie. Either way, I think Catherine Zelie and Catherine Azelie are lovely.

I actually had another idea when I was writing out the explanation for Catherine Zelie/Azelie, which was Tess—it’s a diminutive of the Therese/T(h)eresa names, but it can also stand on its own, so though Shannon said they’re trying to avoid nicknames, I thought maybe Tess squeaked in just under the wire. Really though, I was just so taken with the sweetness of Catherine Tess that I had to include it!

(7) Names from their last consultation
Finally, I looked back at Shannon’s first email to me for Caroline’s consultation, and found several names in there that she’d said she liked, that I thought could make great middle names for Catherine, specifically Catherine Joan and Catherine Sophia/Sophie. Joan also made me think of its variant Jane, and I like how Catherine Jane sounds as well. And I like that Sophie/Sophie can be Marian names, since they can refer to Our Lady’s title Seat of Wisdom.

And those are my ideas! What do you all think? What Marian name(s) would you suggest for Catherine’s middle?